I was born and raised in Benton Harbor MI, I was raised by grandmother from an early age, due to the lost of my mom. My mom struggled with drugs and alcohol and Alcoholic Hep finally took her life at the age of 28. I wish I have got to know her better. Well my dad lived around the corner from us but really had no dealing with me or my sister for the most part. He got a new family when I was around 5 and well lets just say she wasn’t to fond of us. My grandmother did all she could to raise us. She could be verbally abusive at times, but she always provided for us and gave us all she could with minimal resources. Life started to change for me at around 11 years old. My sister who is 3 years older than me, started to experience inner city teenage life and well I followed right along.
It wasn’t long before I was drinking, smoking, and having sex (I was 12 when I experienced all of these). Right before the age of 13, I got involved with the neighborhood drug dealer and well lets just say I liked what he had to offer me. I started to sale crack at the young age of 12. Though I was only doing small numbers, a package here or there, it gave me a taste of the fast life and fast money. I started to mess with a few older girls and life started to move even faster. By the time I was 14, I was helping a guy I had known for years chop up 8th of Kilos and the money got even better. By the time I was 15 school wasn’t a concern and by this time I had already moved out of my grandmothers house twice, I was actually sleeping over a cousin house in which I could hustle with more liberty.
Blunts, sex, partying, drinking and hustling became the norm and well, I was headed for hell in a hand basket. By the end of my 15th year, I had become what the streets could make out of a young men. I met a young girl and shortly after my 16th birthday she was pregnant with my son Lionel Jr. Lets rewind some. I was raised in a pseudo-religious home. My grandmother was heavely involved in church, but as for now I still don’t believe she is regenerate. I got involved in Jr. Ushering when I was about 10 years old but by the age 11 I wanted nothing to do with church. I think something had happened when I was around 8 or 9 though. I was reading Revelation while the pastor was hooping and hollering and after coming across the last couple of chapters, this story about the lake of fire thing scared me senseless. I couldn’t wait to go and ask how to escape such a judgement and they baptized me, gave me a certificate and well that was it. Over the next few years nothing changed, I had another experience when I was around 11 but once again my behavior only got worse. As I look back I believe God was working in my heart. But back to age 16.
Right before my son was born my best friend was shot to death over gang affiliations. His name was Sam Maryweather. And I miss him greatly. He was loyal and talented and funny. He would give you the shirt off of his back and would scrap with anybody. How this went down was ironic. My cousin Toney would come by my house every Wed and Sunday. He would be dressed up and talking about this Jesus stuff. I would laugh or ignore him, but to get him off of my back I decided to go one night. Well that night, God started to deal with my heart in a special way. Though I wrestle with my salvation because of the fruit afterwards, I do believe that God was beginning to set me apart. I spoke in tongues was immediately baptized in Jesus name (this was an Oneness Pentecostal Church) and my life was turned upside down. I threw away my CD’s and told Sam and the fellows I could hang out with them anymore “I had found Jesus”.
That weekend Sam and Mitchell went to a party on the wrong side of town. David and Dre was there and they had a shot gun. They blew a hole in his side with the sawed off shot gun, same died a week or so later (maybe two weeks). I think it was September. I cried like a baby, at the funeral and for the next couple of weeks. I couldn’t get over the fact that I should have been there. Well my son was born and I decided I wanted to do something different. I got focused on school, preached the gospel to everyone I could, wore dress clothes to school and was a straight cornball dude. People would laugh and shortly there after I fell back into the same lifestyle. The problem was that I didn’t feel as good as I did before, I tried to come back to church and only lasted a week. Well I got my GPA up to a 1.9 and passed the ASVAB test and joined the Army.
The Army was good to me. I got away from the environment and started to see positive black folks. I started to read and just live my life. You know club on the weekends, work during the weeks, had a girlfriend and you know the rest. One day in California I met a guy name Gary McCall. He was an older man on fire for God. He spoke with boldness and was very knowledgeable of the scriptures. He too was a Oneness Pentecostal but even worse they were Seventh Day Adventist also. It was very legalistic church but I excelled because I needed holiness! I worked hard, I was the first one at church and the last one to leave. I became a deacon at age 19 and I was on fire for God.
Until, the pastor took all of the money and left the church broke. He took the car, left the house we were paying for and all the money from the bank. He just disappeared. He straight ran game on us. Well, I was furious with God and this church and if that was the way church was I didn’t want to have anything to do with them. I ran across some 5 percenters and started to build with them. I loved East Coast music and Wu was my favorite. I started to talk east cost and knowledge 120 (the Lessons). I called myself Born Divine Allah. During this time I went to Kuwait and when I got back about 6 months later I had read and learned more. I visited Austin with some of the dudes I was kicking it with and another major event in my life was about to take place. I met my now wife, Charity. We met at a mall and I fell head over hills in love. I couldn’t stop thinking about her.
Well things moved fast and we were married, 6 months later. She moved to Ft. Hood with me and we embarked on life. I ran into some legal trouble and was facing serious charges. A guy in jail with me told me to pray and God would let me out. I listened to him and I was released a day before Christmas (I was in for 30 days). The Army stood by me and eventually I took a plea that allowed me to not have criminal record. Well i ran back to my old church and my wife hated it. Eventually after they told me to divorce her we left. We went from church to church and eventually I got out of the Army after serving 6 years, my wife convinced me to move to Dallas and go to college. This begins the next chapter.
I went to college and excelled. I excelled at work and life was good. Spiritually I was lost though. I played church, went clubbing on the weekends. Just the typical 24/25 year old black dude. Faithful to my wife and a hard worker. However things changed on December 23 2003. After a night of drinking with a relative, the Lord woke me out of my sleep and I could here Him say as clear as day “choose ye this day” that verse would not leave my head and it tormented me until the wee hours of the morning. I eventually went in the other room and started to pray. I told God that I was tired of religion and that I couldn’t figure out which was true. I told God that they all say they are true so I don’t want either of them. Then the sweetest words were whispered to me by the Spirit. Those words were grace. I didn’t have a clue what biblical grace was, but I knew it was a church word, so I went back to church. I joined a church in Lewisville called RLWC, there I blossomed. Though they are a word of faith church the Lord was working in my life mightly.
One day at college a guy name B.J Thompson came and sat down at the table I was at. He was a Christian Hood Dude. He didn’t look like the typical Christian, with Timbs and baggy jeans on and when I met him he had Christian rap in his car. We became friends and he found out my church situation. I told him that the sermons were always about name it and claim, but it was the best church I could find. He did the greatest thing for me. He gave me a McArthur CD and folks my life was changed. Later I graduated and started to work at Blockbuster Corporate and there I met a guy name Shannon Neffendorf (he just married Jennie a couple of weeks ago and I am so excited). He led a bible study and gave me all of Piper Romans series and Tom Nelson CD’s. I fell in love folks. I started to listen to Hank Hannegraf and after a few months, I was bashing every word of faith pastor I could.
I stated to mature and the Lord opened his word to me. I was introduced to the Doctrines of Grace, and then Reformed Theology. Christianity became very real to me and I understood the Sovereign work of God. I started to read commentaries and different theological books. I listened to sermons on the way to work at work and on the way home. I listened to Sproul, Duncan, Piper, Mahaney, and others. They made the Gospel plain to me and I was even more bitter at the Jakes, Dollars, Prices and Whites. But over the last year God has been maturing me. I stopped debating with people and the love of Christ began to overflow. The cross has become so real to me. As I looked back it was always about earning God’s love, versus free grace. Election changed me from arrogant to humbled. I realized that it was God’s unmerited favor and that I was a product of Unconditional Election. I am free because another one bore my sins and I love Him for that. My works became more about gratitude and less and less that of a debtor. During the last year or so, I started to look into the different systems of theology and decided recently to embrace New Covenant. I pray that this testimony is heart warming and edifying. God bless.
Lionel,
I read your blog on church diversity. I just want you to know that I “hear” you. I am a pastor/elder at my church, and I am white. Our distinctives are expository preaching, elder leadership, passion to reach souls for Christ, and an earnest desire to be a NT church. We desperately want to reach our community and to be a diverse church. We are small, predominantly white, with a few black members. One of my best friends and partners in the Gospel ministry here at our church is black, and he and I have brought up many of the same sentiments/concerns that you expressed in your blog. We don’t know the answer, but I feel that you bring up some legitimate points and I am going to pray about some of these things.
Last night, our church hosted three other churches in our city (one predominantly white, the other two predominantly black). We had an awesome time of fellowship and worship together. One of the pastors, who is black, preached on how the Gospel eradicates racism. I feel that we now have some momentum. We’ll see.
Thank you for your expressing your desires for a unified, diverse church that reflects the glory of the Gospel.
Ryan
Pastor Ryan,
Where are you located Sir? I would love to get you on the good church list. My heart is warmed by your heart for diversity Sir (brother). Many say they want it but few are willing to run the risk of change and discomfort to bear through it all. Many refuse to change up services and take the steps you and the leadership of your church has taken brother. I am getting all mushy here. LOL! As I have tried to convey, both parties are responsible, though I feel the “white” church bears the burden a little heavier due to the history of race relations within America and the Western church.
Those of us who are black and God has revealed to us the poison spewing from many of pulpits,, and not only that the refusal to fulfill the Great Commission and properly train their congregants we have to have the courage and take the next step and go to these churches and fight and pray for their hearts to be changed on the issue of diversity. I do believe many whites are afraid (and maybe rightfully so) to interact with blacks and vice versa. I think we all have to come to the table, discuss our differences and work on reconciliation and bridge building. I think this goes beyond sending a couple of dollars and helping plant churches (I am almost ready to say, you shouldn’t plant ethinc churches). But that is for another blog. I pray that God will bless your endavors greatly Pastor Ryan. God bless.
Do you still go to Lifeline in Denton?
No I don’t. How are things with you? How is LA?
Hi Lionel,
New reader to your blog. I too am a reformed black christian and this site is an encouragement to me. Are you still in the DFW area? If so I would like to build with you because I live in Carrollton.
I am very familar with Lifeline as I am friends with a few cats there as well as Dhati.
I would to get chat with you bro over some things like where you currently fellowship at, Holy Hip Hop and doctrines of Grace.
Hit me up with you can..
Thanks,
Jason
Hey Jason hit me up
972-816-7024
As christians, born again by Jesus Christ, blood bought by the lamb of the all might God, shouldn’t we be trying to lead more people to salvation, helping each other instead of bad mouthing everyone that doesn’t think just like you. Just cause you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean you need to waste time bad mouthing. The devil and the ones that follow him do enough of that, we should be joining together in one common goal to push the Kingdom of God forward, after all that is what He tells us we are suppose to be doing. The devil is running crazy all over this world as it is shouldn’t us brothers and sisters in Christ ban together not fight each other. I pray that God will speak to you, God’s word says a good man’s steps are order of the Lord, and I pray that you walk in the steps God has ordered of you.
Hello Child of God,
1. If you are referring to my bad church list. I am trying to help lead people to salvation by not allowing to fellowship with false churches that preach a false Gospel
2. Who said time was wasted other than you? Wolves are to be exposed at all cost. I didn’t speak negatively about the individuals just their teaching. They may be nice people just like Mormons, Muslims and Jehvoah witnesses. However the doctrine they preach is damning and if you really cared about people you wouldn’t want them to be devoured by these wovles and false prophets. These individuals are your brothers and sisters and just like I wouldn’t want my sister dating an abusive man, I don’t want my sister being abused by false teaching.
3. I refuse to join with those that Pauls says “antethama” to. That would be contrinbuting to false prophets. Remember what Paul wrote in Corinthians “Don’t be unequally yoked”. This is what he was referring to these “super apostles” who are no apostles at all.
4. Yes the devil is running a muck, however these individuals that I listed aren’t my brothers and sisters they are false teachers with a different gospel which is no gospel at all. So yeah we should be joining together that is why I have a good church list. BTW the devil is cutting a fool and using these false teachers to help.
5. My daily ambition is to walk with the Spirit by putting on the new man. I have been crucified with Christ so “my ordered steps” have become the Great Commission and anyway that I can contribute to the Kingdom. So hopefully I am walking in those steps. It is my greatest desire to please the one who enlisted me for service. My God, Friend, Master, King, Priest and Savior has purchased me with His blood and I pray that I can be a pleasing aroma to Him. But allowing false teaching and sitting back on the porch like a scared dog isn’t pleasing. A real Shepherd lays down his life and I don’t want to be a hired hand but a true shepherd of God’s people, who is the True Shepherd.
Please tell me some of the teachings that are wrong. I can honestly say I agree with Junita Bynum and Joyce Meyer, I don’t agree with their teachings either, and they don’t set right in my spirit, nor does Joel Olsteen, but I know Rod Parsley and his teachings, the others I know but haven’t followed their teachings as much. What wrong do you find in Rod Parsley’s teaching?
Here is something from Rod Parsley let me know what you think:
Here is one
https://www.breakthrough.net/Resseed2007/index.asp
Here is a quote from one of his fund raisers:
“I believe this is your time to receive the tangible transfer of God’s miracle-working power, and I want to encourage every one of my Breakthrough Partners and friends to send a prayer cloth along with your prayer needs to be prayed over. When I return your prayer cloth to you, I believe the tangible transfer of God’s creative power will flow into your life and birth your miracle! I believe God, Himself, will anoint you to reap a mighty harvest of your physical, spiritual and financial needs… ”
Here is another
“right now I want to mark or target your greatest need whether finances health, family situations with the anointing of God for your miracle . In the early church people saw tangible transfer of the anointing from the apostle Paul to those he laid hands on so then they began to give him handkerchief’s for him to pray over and miracles followed Acts 19:12 declares that diseases departed from them and evil spirits went of them . The clothes became a point of contact for the anointing to be transferred to others I want to mark your prayer cloth with the tangible anointing of God which the bible says will destroy every yoke and burden during Dominion camp meeting I believe the anointing of God will be manifested on July 3rd during our year of Jubilee old fashion miracle healing and deliverance prayer service on that day as we do each year directed of the Lord with my self and thousands of people will pray over your prayer cloth … then well send that prayer cloth back to you believing God to transfer his Jubilee anointing into your life and mark you for a miracle .”.. I’m going to place them on our prayer altar throughout dominion ‘98 camp meeting where they will be saturated in the presence of God then sent back to you. When you write please remember I need YOUR FINANCIAL HELP to help the support this ministry to you.” (With a gift of $15 or more he’ll send you his brand new book the jubilee anointing .)”
And just in case:
“They laid the sick the whole the lame the blind in the streets, Peter shadow caused strength to come back into their legs, some of you are going to be pushing the grocery cart between the frozen peas and carrots and somebody is going to jump out of a wheelchair over in the cereal aisle because of the glory of god that is coming upon you. The glory of god is going to come upon you and cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. Isaiah prophesied that the mountain of the lords house shall be established on the top of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills and all nations shall flow into it, the gravitational pull of the church is going to become so strong on the world because the gravitational pull on us is so strong from our Jesus that its going to make them seem as though they were forced into the kingdom of God. Your sons and daughters are going to get forced in, your neighborhoods, mayor is going to get forced in, the president of the United States is going to get forced into the kingdom of God. We win this thing. Yes, the rapture is coming, …but before then, there is going to be the greatest revolutionary harvest of souls by the army of God that world has ever seen. They’re not coming in one or two at a time, They’re not coming in a thousand or ten thousand at a time but by the millions they are going to be forced into the kingdom of God” (Breakthrough Jan.7, 2000).
Let me know if you DON’T have any problems with these quotes.
no I don’t, many people take him all wrong, God has given Rod Parsley gifts of the spirit and he uses them, just like the financial breakthrough or breakthrough in your health or whatever your wanting, Rod Parsley is putting his faith out there but you have to put yours out there as well. You also have to keep in mind that the devil is going to do everything in his power to keep you from getting that. As for them wanting you to give money….they are a church they work by our contriutions, but so many people can’t even follow God’s simple command and pay tithe faithfully. They always ask for money but you have to be able to discern and ask God and hear from God on weither or not to give money and if so then how much. As for the prayer cloths and the tangible touch, thats in the bible, Paul did it, it doesn’t have anything to do with the cloth itself its the prayers and the faith and Gods word and God’s miracle working power thats in it, the cloth is just a point of contact, I know that it works cause my little brother turned from close to worshipping the devil to turning his life back over to God. I have had family members and friends healed of things because of that.
Child of God you said:
“no I don’t, many people take him all wrong, God has given Rod Parsley gifts of the spirit and he uses them, just like the financial breakthrough or breakthrough in your health or whatever your wanting, Rod Parsley is putting his faith out there but you have to put yours out there as well.”
I will have to graciously disagree with you. We are all given gifts of the Spirit when we are saved. The bible never talks about a “financial” breakthrough or a “healing” breakthrough. Some were healed some weren’t some were poor but some werent. I will not question your experiences nor the expereinces of your loved ones. I am thankful that God delievered both your brother and your loved ones. I will say that I don’t think it had anything to do with Parsley though, and all to do with God. Remeber what Peter said in Acts 4
11 While he clung to Peter and John, all the people, utterly astounded, ran together to them in the portico called Solomon’s. 12 And when Peter saw it he addressed the people: “Men of Israel, why do you wonder at this, or why do you stare at us, as though by our own power or piety we have made him walk? 13 The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. 14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses. 16 And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all.
It is Jesus who delievered your brother and healed your loved ones. It had nothing to do with Parsley. I do see however, that you are emotionally attached to Parsley and I don’t want to offend you any further. But after reading the statements above especially his false teaching on the ressurection and that if “you sow a seed your loved ones will be healed” and you don’t have a problem with that there may not be much room for us to discuss anything.
I do appreciate your concern and I appreciate your heart for God and your love for the brothers and sisters of the faith. This is amazing in this day and age. Thanks a lot for the dialouge and don’t hesitate to comment in the future.
I meant your loved ones will be saved! This is very troubling to me Child of God. He promises something he can’t grant and this is somehow unlocked by giving him money. This is a very old heresy taught by Rome in the 15th and 16th century that was the catalyst for the Reformation. I am very afraid that someone would charge to grant someone else salvation.
No, it doesn’t have anything to do with Rod Parsley other than he humbles himself to God for God to use in whatever way He wants, Its God that does it all and we all know that. You have to know and remember though Jesus said He will that we be healed….do you remember that verse?Luke 5:13 But you also have to know and remember that God needs and earthly body or agreement if you would as He says if two or more come together there I am in the mist, He needs us as a vessel to bless us and do things for us that we desire. The first miracle in the bible was a want not a need, but God isn’t going to bless us if we can’t do what He has asked. It is Gods will that we prosper, and are blessed but only to push His kingdom forward, He won’t do it for selfish reason and thats were it gets people, everyone is living of the flesh instead of the spirirt like we are suppose to do and they want a new car then never take anyone to church. This world is selfish and greedy. The sowing of the seed is biblical if you will look,Mark 4:26-32, Is 55:10, seed reproduces after itself, the ressurection seed refers to the feasts in Israel, when they sow there seeds, we are grafted into the Jews and tradtions, we need to honor them just as Jesus himself did. They sow seed 3 times a year one of which is what we call Easter only we don’t call it easter cause its not, its really ressurection day or when Jesus ressurected. Just like in farming, the seed is the designated portion of your harvest, it unlocks the harvest, you sow the seed of whatever plant and then you recieve the harvest which is the plant. Just like God sowed a son which was Jesus to reap a harvest, of souls, a family. If you will listen to some of Rod’s teachings or even some of the elders without having an opinion before you even listen you will see what he says is biblical. I thought the same at first, but I have been able to met Rod and set under his teachings and whatched him and the MINISTIRES close and he is a man of God and teaching just what God has said to teach. You can’t get mad cause God has given him revelation knowledge either, its there for whoever asks. He is doing move to push God’s kingdom forward then most people and I get aggrivated when people want to bad mouth him, he is only helping people, like all the slaves in Sudan he went and got set free. The clinic he has open to save babies about to be aborted, to all the natural disasters that happen world harvest church is there with whatever the people need, like with the wildfires of Cal and hurrican katrina and New Orleans. I’m just saying I know his teachings and I was leary at first but they are all biblical, sound doctrine, and I’m tired of people saying he all bad just cause they don’t like that he has a mega ministry.
Thanks for the response Child of God. I pray all is well.
Hey Brother Lionel, I stumbled into your site by “accident”. I wanted to commend both you and “childofGod” for not getting too out of hand in your correspondence with each other. It is a challenge to love (and like!) those whom we have disagreements with but I thought you handled it very graciously and in true Christ-like love. Well done!!! I think I may have seen posts by you on a book review about the decline of African American theology. In it you said that if anyone knew of any Black Reformed preachers or congregations to pass that information on to you so that you could pray for and encourage them. First of all, I am 37 and completely white!!! I am married to my best friend and she is completely black!!! We met in the Army and have been married now for 16 years (Praise God!!!). We have 3 beautiful children and live in Lancaster, PA. This is a hotbed for a lot of conservative theology (Anabaptists, Mennonite, Amish, Brethren, etc…). My wife and I have always struggled to find a church that met both of our “needs” (most of them are actually wants and not needs). We attended a church that was very multi-cultural but ended up going the way of the “bad churches”. We found another one that we liked but after about 3 months we felt alone and unnourished. Turns out this is a seeker sensitive mega church. We decided to keep looking and started going to a small church that doesn’t have their own property or building yet but meets in the gymnasium of a local mennonite school. I have to say, the people are some of the most friendly people I have ever met but I have a hard time finding the “meat” with all of the “milk” they are preaching. I am frustrated again!!! I recently have had a switch in my theology, switching from an Arminian background to a Calvinistic theology. So I am currently looking for a church that will hold to the Reformed line of doctrinal teaching. I found a couple of churches in our area, but the most notable is Westminster Presbyterian Church (PCA). We have not tried it yet, but interestingly enough, they have helped start 5 other sister churches. One of them is an inner city fellowship for Lancaster city called New City Fellowship (PCA) and is pastored by an African-American named Stan Morton. I have emailed the Westminster church to give us info on this pastor and the fellowship he is leading in the city. As soon as we get some contact info on him or the fellowship I want to touch base with him and see if we could attend this fellowship. I will keep you updated on how things transpire. Pray for my family and for this pastor. Lancaster county is primarily white but Lancaster city has a substantial minority population. Most of the churches in the city are old school churches that do not typically appeal to minorities. There is one or two churches that are having success in the area of reaching out to minorities but they are not of the Reformed mindset. I have felt a burden for quite some time to be used in the city reaching out to “the least of these”. It would be a wonderful blessing from God to answer my prayer by also being part of the Reformed Church movement. It is ashame to me that most Reformed Presbyterian churches do seem to attract upper-middle class whites. It breaks my heart to know that churches are some of the most racially divisive places on earth. I don’t think these churches necessarily set out with this as an agenda. People just gravitate to what they are most comfortable with. But I could care less about comfort at this stage of my life. All people need to hear the REAL gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m hoping that I this fellowship will be a first step in our path of finding the right church for our family as well as taking the gospel to the city. I have been extremely encouraged by the websites and blogs I have found of Black Reformed churches that are out here. I’m sure they are few and far between but it seems that the Lord is calling His people from everywhere and I’m excited to see Black people receptive to this doctrine. My wife gets frustrated at times because if we find a church that seems to be teaching what we agree with then it’s usually white and her and the kids feel that even though they are among spiritual brothers and sisters it’s frustrating to see that they are the only black ones there. If we go to a black church where they see other people who look like them it’s usually a bunch of the same ‘ol same ‘ol being preached from the pulpit. I am hoping that the possibility that seems to be sitting right before us will be God’s answer to our prayers!!! If you ever want to correspond my email is scottie3371@comcast.net. You have a beautiful family and you all have big wonderful smiles!!! Must be the joy of the Lord!!! Take care, brother and may God’s grace and blessings be on you and yours.
Child of God,
I read the earlier blogs between yourself and Lionel.
I wanted to chime in because I was able to see both of your points from a bird’s eye perspective.
I don’t want you to feel like anyone is ganging up on you, because certainly that is not were I am coming from, I am a new visitor on this site. I hesitated to say anything, but I really understand why you said what you did, and I see so much of who I once was in you, so I decided to write something.
One thing that caught my attention was when you said:
“If you will listen to some of Rod’s teachings or even some of the elders without having an opinion before you even listen you will see what he says is biblical.”
I think the reason you will find that many people from this site have an opinion is because they are coming from churches like Rod Parsley’s. Therefore are very familiar with the Charismatic doctrine and way of teaching. I want you to know that, because at one time I would have looked at this site, and thought the same thing. That they are a bunch of hypocritical, legalistic people who don’t understand the good intentions of these pastor’s, of which my pastor and the church I attended was one of them. It is important for you to know that some of the people who single out Charismatic Pastor’s , are not doing so based on a lack of knowledge. Many use to be apart of those congregations themselves, and are speaking with experience.
I also want you to understand that just because someone is using scripture does not mean what they say is biblical. You have to remember to listen out for what context someone is using a particular scripture. What they are saying is only godly if they are using the scripture the way God intended. Remember, satan used scripture to deceive Eve, but he was twisting what God meant to say, therefore it was deception. PLEASE UNDERSTAND…if you research the context behind the scriptures your Pastor is using you may find some discrepancies with what they are saying and what that scripture really meant.
One bit of advice that I would give you, because I was where you are, is to be very watchful, please do not ignore the signals that the Holy Spirit will give you. You seem like you are very eager for God, and His word. As you seek Him, He will lead you to the truth. What happened to me was that God would bring certain things to my attention that were not right, out of order, or not in line with His word, but I ignored them. I ignored them, because I figured that the intention behind what was happening was pure, because I trusted my leader (and leaders) so much. So I let those things pass. Then come to find out, when the truth was revealed (like Jesus said it would be), what the Holy Spirit was telling me the whole time (and what I was ignoring) was correct. I had been deceived.
I am saying this out of love, not to hurt your feelings. I wish someone would have told me this, if only to open my eyes a little so that I could have been on my guard. I will not tell you what to do, but trust me, the reason why you see people trying to speak out about these pastors is because they too have been where you are, and they realized the truth, and are trying to warn others. You may not understand what I (and others) are saying now (just as I didn’t at one time), but when the truth comes out, it will all make sense.
I don’t mean to scare you, just stay in your word, and ask God to lead you in all truth, and He will. Just make sure you trust Him and His word, more than your church Pastors, and leaders. Psalms 118:8 “It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.”
http://www.mountzion.org/text/BEL_1-6.rtf
This is a link to a book on your wish list, Biblical Eldership.
bro. lionel have you a list for guys like tony evans yet or is he tied in the with the legion of doom?
What do you mean Sam.
Dear Brother Lionel,
You have had quite a journey! What a wondeful, gracious, Saviour we have!
As a 75 year old preacher who has been pastoring since age 23. I thank God that He is so great and HIs Word is so rich that we can’t fully grasp it all, even though we study and seek to teach God’s Word correctly. I encourage you to just keep magnifying Jesus and His Word. I’m glad the difficult 11th chapter of Romans ends with a doxology that magnifies the unsearable wisdom and knowledge of God.
I encourage you to get hold of Martyn Lloyd Jones’ studies in
The Sermon on the MOunt. That study helped me years ago to get a good balanced understanding of God’s sovereignty and of the whole Bible. I’m still learning and rejoicing in the privilege of preaching God’s Word.
Check out my web site http://www.alamedabiblechurch.com and go to HIDDEN TREASURES for about 500 Bible studies on many, many topics.
God bless you, brother, and continue to use you for His glory.
Your Brother in Christ,
Mal Bicker
wow.. what a CHRIST centered testimony! I am praising the LORD for the new life He has given you!! Man, when I read testimonies like these and think about my own.. I am just in amazement and awe.. who would have thought we would know Him this way! Just brings a grown woman to tears
Thanks Nicole! God’s grace brings me to tears and my knees quite often. Especially when I get self-righteous, judgmental, self-serving, selfish and pious! I have to remember Paul’s statement in Romans “don’t think too highly of yourselves”! But thank God that I am clothed in His righteousness so that even these self serving sins are covered by His blood.
Lionel,
Looks like our Brother dug and fertilized around your tree!
Love is the bridge. The Father made His love real to us by showing us His Son. We demonstrate to others that same love, because He first loved us.
You’ve got a story, man.
Tom
This might be of intrest to you.
Why Believers Should Not Attend “Church”
Here are four main points that will be covered in this article
1. “Worship” is a service, not a ritual. Those who “attend church” and imitate Old Testament worship patterns generally neglect the New Testament commands to exhort one another daily (Hebrews 3:13; 10:24-25).
2. The Old Testament looks forward to the Age in which all men would worship God everywhere, and not just in that “place which the LORD your God shall choose” (Deuteronomy 12:11). The New Covenant priesthood is decentralized and universalized, not restricted to the “ordained” and the church traditions of men.
3. Exhortation is conversational, not sermonic. Preaching means dialogue, not a monologue. Rather than being equipped by New Testament-style exhortation and service, church-goers can become impotent and dependent upon a credentialed “professional” who engages in statism.
4. Fellowship is best accomplished in homes, not in pews. In “church” the “dignity” of priestly pomp and “worship” is substituted for the personal, house-to-house communion pictured in the Scriptures (Acts 2:46). A military-style symbol of a meal, and a view of the back of someone’s head, is substituted for a genuine meal and a time of face-to-face fellowship.
These four points are very plainly at odds with most every church in the country. But the point is not simply to be different, nor to insult all other churches. The purpose is to analyze apparently “obvious” traditions in the light of the Scriptures (Acts 17:11).
What is “Worship”?
The basic meaning of the word “worship” is service. To “worship” God is to put every area of one’s life under the His Law. Worship in the generic sense is the devotion we owe to God in the whole of life. God is sovereign, He is Lord, having sovereignty over us and propriety in us, and therefore in all that we do we owe subjection to him, devotion to His revealed will, obedience to His commandments. There is no area of life where the injunction does not apply (1 Corinthians 10:31). In view of the lordship of Christ as Mediator, all of life comes under His dominion (Colossians 3:23,24).
In the Old Testament there was also a more specific usage for “worship,” namely, the observance of the ceremonial rituals. These ritual observances typified worship in every area of life. Animal sacrifice, the burning of incense, attendance at temple, and other rigors were imposed on the people of Israel, and were but shadows of the worship of the New Covenant.
Jesus spoke of the New Covenant form of worship in John 4. The woman at the well, having been confronted with the ethical demands of the Lord Jesus (regarding her adulterous life), attempts a “doctrinal” diversion: she asks Jesus about “worship.” Putting words in Jesus’ mouth, she claims that worship occurs in a certain place (John 4:20). Jesus denies that worship occurs in any place, and says, “true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth” (John 4:21-24).
In the common, specific sense, “worship” means attending to the ceremonial requirements of the Old Covenant, going to a certain place. But these acts only symbolized true “worship,” and were necessary to prod a Spiritless people to that worship which means obedience to God in every area of life, in Spirit and in Truth.
Can you find one occurrence in the New Testament books of “worship” in the ceremonial/specific sense (going to a specific place to worship) being required of bondservants of Christ? The answer is no. Or are the occurrences of “worship” speaking of obedience in every area of life? The answer is yes. Do any of the Greek words used for “worship” occur in any sense requiring bondservants of Christ to go to Jerusalem, or to any specific “place” to “worship” God? No, they do not. Would we expect centralized ceremonial “worship” to be required today in light of the fact that Jews were doing this because the spirit of God was not yet given them (John 7:39)? In light of the fact that in the Old Testament, God only dwelt in temples made with hands because the Spirit was not yet inside of the people, but today, God says He does not dwell in temples made with hands, because the Spirit of God dwells within our bodies? If you “attend church,” have you been trained to search the Scriptures to find the answers to such questions as these (Acts 17:11), or do you need to ask your “minister or elder”?
The Enduring Old Testament Law
The Mosaic law commanded God’s people to gather for worship and to hear God’s Word (Deuteronomy 12:5-12; 31:11-12). The Old Testament required travel to a centralized location to hear a special priesthood. The reason is that the Spirit was not yet given to the people under the Old Covenant, and since they had no Spirit to communicate with God, they had to go to a physical building and hear a physical priest to understand what God’s Word was. Do we still have to hear God’s Word from a special priesthood? Or does the Spirit of God dwell within us today? Compare these commands with Jesus’ conversation with the woman at the well (John 4:20-24). Do we still go to Jerusalem? Must we listen to Moses or the priests to hear God’s Word?
Obviously, we do not “bring an offering” or “come before Him” in the same way we did in the Old Covenant. Nor do we “hear God’s Word” by going to the typological temple and hearing a priest. Scripture says we are all priests now (1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10; Isaiah 61:6), and God’s Word has gone out through all the world (Romans 1:8; 10:18; Colossians 1:6,23).
Old Covenant believers would be astonished at the scope of publication of God’s Word in our day. This is guided by the powerful work of the Holy Spirit Himself. Thus, publishers should labor as priests under God, and see their work as having great and special Spiritual significance.
This massive outpouring of Truth works to enable every believer-priest to know and study God’s Word and to proclaim it to his neighbors. And it all takes place outside the walls of institutional churches. In fact, the “church” has historically opposed the free dissemination of Scripture and its exposition. The Roman Catholic Church burned Christians at the stake for doing this.
All of this should be understood as the true Spiritual meaning of the Old Testament prophecies. Joel 2:28 is an example of how the world-wide decentralized spread of the Gospel was spoken of by the Prophets. Similarly did Moses speak, when he prayed that God would make all of His people prophets and preachers (Numbers 11:29). Acts 2:17 is a fulfillment of Joel 2:28, when the Holy Spirit was finally given to His people. So you see, we are all prophets, priests, and kings today (; Isaiah 61:6; 1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10).
Thus, no building can be said to be the place to worship simply because of the presence of the special “ordained” priests. Every Believer is a Priest. We need not “go to Jerusalem”, or to a “temple made with hands” (Acts 7:48; 17:24). This is why, when Jesus died, and confirmed the New Testament, the physical temple was rent in half (Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:34). This is why New Testament believers worship “from house to house”, in homes (Acts 2:46), and not in temples made with hands.
Does the Bible say Believers must go to a Physical church?
Churches commonly quote Acts 20:7 as a precedent for Church worship, but the whole impression of Acts 20:7 is rather that of a family meeting together in a home than of a modern congregation met in a church. “Family” meaning a group of believers and friends. Is it possible that we may have lost the sense of the congregation as a real family in God?
Psalm 22:22 is also quoted, and it is cited in Hebrews 2:12, as referring to Christ. How does Christ stand in the midst of his congregation and declare His Name? Only in certain buildings at certain times? Matthew 18:20 spells doom for those who would so assert: “For where two or three are gathered together in my Name, there am I in the midst of them.” His Presence with us is through the Comforter, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), who fulfills Moses’ wish that we could all be prophets and not have to be dependent upon special priests to teach us (1 John 2:27). God’s Presence is not localized “in temples made with hands” (Acts 7:48; 17:24). Our body is now the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells within us (1 Corinthians 3:9,16,17; 6:19-20, Ephesians 2:20-22), just like Jesus referred to his own body as a temple (Mark 14:58, John 2:19-21). And as believers exercise dominion over the entire globe, Christ is correspondingly present (Matthew 28:18,20).
Does Scripture require this “special” place of worship in addition to “everywhere”? One of the burdens of the first century was the corrupt worship among the Jews, and scripture says in God’s advent, that will be replaced with pure worship among the Gentiles in every place (Malachi 1:11; 3:3-4). Worship would no longer be limited or tied to Jerusalem, or to the outward shadows of the Old Covenant, or to a centralized Church. Because once the Holy Spirit is given, shadows are no longer necessary.
How do we worship God in the New Covenant? Do we need an institutional priesthood? Must we journey to a certain centralized location? Must we “attend church”? It is virtually implied that those who do not “worship” in a certain place (subordinate to a priest) do not believe in “assembling” together, or with any appreciation of the Community we have in Christ. This is false. The question is not, “Are we to ‘gather together’”?, but rather “How are we to ‘gather together’”?
The Judaizers told believers in Christ that unless they observed the ceremonial requirements of the Old Covenant they weren’t being faithful. Their purpose was not to make obedient patriarchs out of the new converts, but to gain power over them (Galatians 2:4).
We should not localize God:
Acts 7:49, “Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?”
1 Kings 8:27, “…behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?”
What does “Preach” mean?
Believers are to Preach God’s Word (2 Timothy 4:2; Acts 20:7-9; 1 Timothy 4:6-16). Also mentioned is “exhort” and “teach” in these verses. Far more significant, however, is the entire notion of “preaching”. There were no one-man lectures (monologues) in the early Church until Greek philosophy was imported into the Church. The traveling philosophers (peripatetics) were popular in the Greco-Roman world, and were too easily imitated among Believers. What passes for “preaching” in our day has absolutely no Biblical warrant. Nowhere in the New Testament is there an example of a “sermon” in the Christ’s assemblies.
We need to emphasize this point. If the Apostle Paul were invited into one of our meetings and saw only one man give an oration patterned after the Greek philosophers of his day, with absolutely no interaction with the “laymen,” Paul would demand to know “What’s going on here?” This modern pattern bears no resemblance to the New Testament pattern, although it is unwittingly patterned after ancient Greek itinerant moralists. The “sermon” is an unscriptural tradition, imported from Greco-Roman paganism. Some preachers, of course, fail to meet even the standards of the Greek philosophers. Their “preaching” is pure entertainment.
Acts 20 is used to establish many modern practices of the church, and yet it supports none of them. Consider “preaching.”
The text were added so the reader can see how different translations wrote the verse.
(ALT) Now on the first [day] of the week [i.e. Sunday], the disciples having been gathered together to break bread, Paul began holding a discussion with them, being about to be departing the next day, and he kept prolonging the word [fig., discussion] until midnight.
(ASV) And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight.
(BBE) And on the first day of the week, when we had come together for the holy meal, Paul gave them a talk, for it was his purpose to go away on the day after; and he went on talking till after the middle of the night.
(CEV) On the first day of the week we met to break bread together. Paul spoke to the people until midnight because he was leaving the next morning.
(ISV) On the first day of the week, when we had met to break bread, Paul began to address the people. Since he intended to leave the next day, he went on speaking until midnight.
(KJV+) And1161 upon1722 the3588 first3391 day of the3588 week,4521 when the3588 disciples3101 came together4863 to break2806 bread,740 Paul3972 preached1256 unto them,846 ready3195 to depart1826 on the3588 morrow;1887 and5037 continued3905 his speech3056 until3360 midnight.3317
(YLT) And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread, Paul was discoursing to them, about to depart on the morrow, he was also continuing the discourse till midnight,
The Greek word for “preach” in Acts 20:7,9 is word dialegomai: it’s a “dialogue” not a “monologue.” Dialegomai means: “to say thoroughly, that is, discuss (in argument or exhortation): - dispute, reason (with), speak.”. It comes from the word “di” which means “a combining form meaning ‘two’, ‘double’.” We do not have “dialogue and discussion” in most “churches,” and therefore do not obey Acts 20:7. Does the church really believe that Paul gave an uninterrupted lecture — for twelve hours?!? Dialegomai is also translated as “reasoned” in Acts 17:2, where Paul “reasoned” in the synagogue out of the scriptures. Paul “reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath” (Acts 18:4,19). In church, the preacher doesn’t “reason” with anybody, but simply talks with no chance of interaction with those in the audience. Dialegomai is also translated as “disputed” in Acts 17:17, where Paul “disputed he in the synagogue”, and in Acts 19:18 where he was “disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.” In Church, the minister or elder does not give anyone the chance to “dispute” or “question” him. Is this biblical?
For now, note the inescapable fact that there simply was no “preaching” or “sermon” as we popularly conceive it today. When we proclaim the Gospel to our neighbor, we engage in “official and professional instruction” as priest-kings of Christ! The gates of hell are assaulted and overcome by our “informal discussion”. Modern churches have replaced the discussion and animated conversation of the New Testament with “sermons,” an invention of the Greeks, and a man-made tradition.
As a result, I cannot obey the Scriptural commands as cited in 1 Corinthians 14:26,31 when I “attend church”; I cannot edify and prophesy. Neither can I obey 1 Timothy 4:13 and 2 Timothy 4:2 when I “attend church”; I cannot exhort, I cannot “teach”, except through hymns (but not of my choosing). Only one person exhorts in a “church”; the whole congregation violates Hebrews 10:24-25, at least when they are “attending church.” Perhaps they obey these commands later in the afternoon, when in colloquial discussion they bring all thoughts captive to Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5), but certainly not during Church services.
Who is a Minister or a Priest?
While the Apostle could claim to be a “steward of the mysteries of God” (1 Corinthians 4:1), we wonder what Churches mean when they claim the same thing for themselves, after the age of the Apostles, and denying the duty to all other (”non-ordained”
believers. Perhaps they dispense mysteries only when speaking ex cathedra. No, surely whenever any believer shares the Word of God with another, he dispenses mysteries in the same sense as the churchmen might legitimately claim for themselves.
It seems that church preachers are sometimes not as interested in exalting the Apostles or the Gospel as much as their own ecclesiastical power. This seems to be a fairly significant issue, one that underlies the issue of preaching and this entire article: The ecclesiocrat works to “mystify” his “office.” He wants a “mystique” to surround his position. He seeks not to exalt the Word of God so much as to intimidate and impress the “laity.” Many are unable to think of the work of the elder as attainable, practical, or understandable, because it is invested with an aura of mystery. The every-day function of nurturing younger believers and watching over them, concerned for their Spiritual growth, is converted into a high and lofty ecclesiastical “office” resembling an inscrutable, occultic link between god and man. Rather than rooted in Biblical Law and practical competence therein, this ecclesiocentric authority is esoteric, shrouded in mystery.
In the Priesthood of All Believers, all believers can strive to be mature, wise, and Godly. In denominational churches, the “uninitiated” can never be “mysterious.” They are qualitatively (not just quantitatively) inferior. “Religion” is thus removed, and the rest of us must read Ann Landers for “practical” guidance the rest of the week.
In sharp contrast to this mentality, the Bible wants us to think of every believer as one who must dispense divine mysteries (Isaiah 61:6; 66:20-23; 1 Peter 2:9). In fact, the “mystery” which was hidden in the Old Covenant is the fact that all men shall be a part of God’s Kingdom of priests, and they shall function fully, obediently, and spontaneously (Ephesians 2; Revelation 1:6; 1 Peter 2:5,9; Hebrews 8:8-12) without the rigors of the Old Covenant ceremonial priesthood (Colossians 1:26-27; Ephesians 1:9-10; 3:5-6; Galatians 3:19 - 4:11) and without fear of the principalities and powers which held sway over the nations during the Old Covenant (Revelation 20:1-3). Everyone engages in an extremely significant and special act when they bring the Word of God to bear on a neighbor’s problems. The New Testament tells us that this conversation has cosmic significance; the very gates of hell itself are pulled down and Christ’s Kingship extended (2 Corinthians 10:4-5; 1 Corinthians 15:24-25). By virtue of our priestly and kingly office, it is an act of official and professional instruction, and yet this shepherding of another believer or this preaching to an unsaved neighbor should be an “ordinary,” every-day occurrence. The hocus-pocus of a clerical religionist is not demanded.
The Godly father does not dangle fatherhood over his son’s head as an unattainable “mystery.” He seeks to display and explain fatherhood, helping his son to become a Godly father. The Godly “Minister or Elder” does not mystify himself or an ecclesiastical position of power. He models a life of service and obedience to Biblical Law in a practical way, demystifying competence and Godliness so that it might be imitated by all (1 Peter 5:1-3).
Conclusion
To say that we are violating Scripture unless we also “attend church” in the building of an ecclesiastical corporation with a credentialed seminary graduate in the spotlight, is simply preposterous, a remnant of Roman Catholic teaching. There is not a shred of evidence to support such an ecclesiastical requirement, and the whole of Scripture seems to go against it. The movement in the Bible is away from ceremony and limited special priesthood, and toward decentralization, an every-believer priesthood, and a return to direct communication with God through His Spirit.
Our failure as believers to implement this truth comes from our friendship with the world, and conformity thereto (Romans 12:1-2; James 4:4). It seems strange to us to think of a household communion. In our culture, Grandparents live in their own house, Aunts and Uncles are likewise separated from their Nieces and Nephews, and it is “trendy” for children to move out of their parents’ house as soon as they possibly can. In our day “the Family” has been described as one or two working parents and (maybe) 2.2 children (recently down to 1.8).
If we were to take a first-century believer (or even a modern-day member of a number of non-western cultures) up into an airplane over Southern California, and showed them city after city of single-family dwellings, all packed in like sardines, row after row, with parents in one house, children in another, grandparents in another, aunts and uncles in still another, and the poor and homeless wasting away in the abandoned section of industrial parks and urban ghettoes (where the suburban dwellers have coercively zoned them) our passenger would cry. Then he might become enraged: “This is sick! This is an abomination! I could never have imagined such atomism and selfish isolationism!” Little does he know that even among those houses where parents and children dwell together, it is little more than a motel, with students and commuters simply dropping in to sleep at night. In this land there is no property — genuine property — over which fruitful, honest dominion can be exercised unhindered by banks or landlords. It is a nation of slaves. Where in our land is an Abraham, with hundreds of adopted children, hundreds of domestic apprentices, hundreds of the poor and needy receiving shelter, hundreds of illiterate orphans being educated and brought up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and several generations of Family in blessed contact and harmonious community? Well, if we believe the churchmen, that ideal is clearly unattainable: we live in the New Covenant, and we do not have the Spiritual resources which Abraham had under the Old Covenant. Right?
Does Ephesians 5:19 - 6:24 command anything that cannot be fulfilled in “informal” Family-gatherings? The idea of Family communion is in our (atomistic, self-centered) day rightly ridiculed. We are not Patriarchs; we are children. How we cherish the churchmen, who only require us to “worship” in their church one day each week, and then dismiss us to watch our TV’s in isolated silence.
We should always be conscious of Christ’s Presence “where two or three are gathered in My Name.” Whenever we obey the command to assemble together for praising God, Scripture reading and study, exhortation and comfort, prayer and singing, and remembering the Lord’s death in the communal meal, we are clearly engaging in a very special activity.
Remember, the “Church” does not save anybody, only our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can save us (John 3:17; 10:9, Acts 2:21; 4:12; 15:11; 16:31, Romans 10:9,13).
I found your blog through Brother Hank’s website. I want to tell you that I find your story very inspiring. I am glad the Lord is working in your life. You have a beautiful family and I know He will use your gifts and talents greatly for his ministry.
Your posts are extremely thought provoking and honest. They give great insight and they are a tool to many of us out there who are digging deeper into our faith and searching for our God. Keep posting!!
MW
Thank you for the kind words.
Hi Lionel,
I just saw you responded to my post months ago bro! Congrats on the 10 anniversay btw. Still would like to build with you if possible..
For the glory of Him,
Jason