Comments on: A Church and State Dichotomy That I Can’t Understand http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/13/a-church-and-state-dichotomy-that-i-cant-understand/ "But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises." Hebrews 8:6 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:18:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Jim Pemberton http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/13/a-church-and-state-dichotomy-that-i-cant-understand/#comment-4542 Jim Pemberton Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:50:18 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=1065#comment-4542 Whew! Too many comments to read. Let me add to the verbiage with these observations: With regard to the people of God, we are to submit to the government but not so that we fail to submit to God. All protective laws (as opposed to administrative laws) are someone's idea of morality. It is either right or wrong to be involved in government. If it is right to be involved in government, then Christians should encourage the legislation of Christian morals since we are the Body of Christ and it is our duty to disciple the nation according to the Great Commission inasmuch as we teach the true gospel and Christ Himself is Truth. If it is wrong to be involved in government, then we shouldn't whine about not receiving justice from the government. Christ didn't whine about it, but encouraged His people individually to deal justly and graciously with others. While Christ left Rome alone in His rhetoric, He strongly condemned the Pharisees for their injustices. We don't know everything. Christ calls His people to be righteous, but not to be moralists. That means that what is right is in our attitudes and intents rather than in our resulting behaviors. So, we may do something that someone else considers right or wrong. If our intent is honestly to glorify God in obedience to Him, then we are righteous. That means that if we voted for Obama because we believed him to be the choice that would most glorify God, then we were righteous. That also means that if we voted for McCain because we believed him to be the choice that most glorified God, then we are righteous. You mentioned homosexuality. If someone has homosexual attractions and believes that following those attractions glorifies God then that person is righteous. However, after reading such as Romans 1, if that same person is honest in desiring to glorify God, then he should have serious doubts as to whether such behavior glorifies God and seek rather to be conformed to God's Truth than to justify homosexual attractions by distorting his hermeneutical understanding of the scriptures. The question is: what motivates us? Do our desires wrestle against the Holy Spirit or do we desire to die to sin so that we may be purified by obedience to the Holy Spirit? Whew! Too many comments to read. Let me add to the verbiage with these observations:

With regard to the people of God, we are to submit to the government but not so that we fail to submit to God.

All protective laws (as opposed to administrative laws) are someone’s idea of morality.

It is either right or wrong to be involved in government. If it is right to be involved in government, then Christians should encourage the legislation of Christian morals since we are the Body of Christ and it is our duty to disciple the nation according to the Great Commission inasmuch as we teach the true gospel and Christ Himself is Truth. If it is wrong to be involved in government, then we shouldn’t whine about not receiving justice from the government. Christ didn’t whine about it, but encouraged His people individually to deal justly and graciously with others.

While Christ left Rome alone in His rhetoric, He strongly condemned the Pharisees for their injustices.

We don’t know everything. Christ calls His people to be righteous, but not to be moralists. That means that what is right is in our attitudes and intents rather than in our resulting behaviors. So, we may do something that someone else considers right or wrong. If our intent is honestly to glorify God in obedience to Him, then we are righteous. That means that if we voted for Obama because we believed him to be the choice that would most glorify God, then we were righteous. That also means that if we voted for McCain because we believed him to be the choice that most glorified God, then we are righteous.

You mentioned homosexuality. If someone has homosexual attractions and believes that following those attractions glorifies God then that person is righteous. However, after reading such as Romans 1, if that same person is honest in desiring to glorify God, then he should have serious doubts as to whether such behavior glorifies God and seek rather to be conformed to God’s Truth than to justify homosexual attractions by distorting his hermeneutical understanding of the scriptures.

The question is: what motivates us? Do our desires wrestle against the Holy Spirit or do we desire to die to sin so that we may be purified by obedience to the Holy Spirit?

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By: seekerman http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/13/a-church-and-state-dichotomy-that-i-cant-understand/#comment-4536 seekerman Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:05:47 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=1065#comment-4536 This is my last post on the topic of Obama's presidency, but to those self-delusional, right wing evangelicals, who claim that Obama is the anti christ, or the closest thing to it, and will claim with a crooked face that folks who have disdain for him don't have this hatred due to his race, but his politics, ought to get real, look in the mirror, as well as tell the truth and shame the devil. I know many would like to think that way, especially black evangelical right wing types like that dark soul, and intra-racist Jesse Lee Peterson, but I'm sorry- you can't always sanctify your questionable thoughts, spoken words, or actions, under the blanket of Christ. Check out this article right wing, evangelical types who claim that none of Barak's persecution has anything to do with racism, and that his attacks are similar to Bill Clinton being hated by the right wing, because of his "radical" political beliefs: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threats This is my last post on the topic of Obama’s presidency, but to those self-delusional, right wing evangelicals, who claim that Obama is the anti christ, or the closest thing to it, and will claim with a crooked face that folks who have disdain for him don’t have this hatred due to his race, but his politics, ought to get real, look in the mirror, as well as tell the truth and shame the devil.

I know many would like to think that way, especially black evangelical right wing types like that dark soul, and intra-racist Jesse Lee Peterson, but I’m sorry- you can’t always sanctify your questionable thoughts, spoken words, or actions, under the blanket of Christ.

Check out this article right wing, evangelical types who claim that none of Barak’s persecution has anything to do with racism, and that his attacks are similar to Bill Clinton being hated by the right wing, because of his “radical” political beliefs:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threats

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By: seekerman http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/13/a-church-and-state-dichotomy-that-i-cant-understand/#comment-4478 seekerman Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:08:54 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=1065#comment-4478 -By the way, Jesse Lee Peterson was interviewed on the radio by Pastor John E. Coleman. You can go to his website, the link is in the right column, and listen. I think you have to click on “Ram Radio Days *No thank you brother. I'd rather pray for him, than to hear anything further from him. Besides, I'm about to eat dinner, and... Well, you know... -By the way,

Jesse Lee Peterson was interviewed on the radio by Pastor John E. Coleman. You can go to his website, the link is in the right column, and listen. I think you have to click on “Ram Radio Days

*No thank you brother. I’d rather pray for him, than to hear anything further from him. Besides, I’m about to eat dinner, and…

Well, you know…

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By: seekerman http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/13/a-church-and-state-dichotomy-that-i-cant-understand/#comment-4477 seekerman Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:07:32 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=1065#comment-4477 -Or what about the famous Romans 1 text that people use to elevate “Homosexuality” above other sins, including murder? Well, what about verses 28-32? It isn’t even specifically mentioned! Though, terms there could definitely be applied to the homosexual lifestyle. And those that are there seem to be equally evil in God’s eyes. -Or what about I Corinthians 6:9-10? Homosexuality is there but it is not elevated over the other sins is it? -Or what about Revelations 21:8? The “cowardly and unbelieving” are mentioned first. Homosexuality is not specifically mentioned. Though, again, terms there definitely apply. -The church should be equally put off by divorce, especially amongst believers, as they are by the idea of same-sex marriage. *Doesn't the Bible refer to homosexuality as an abomination? Does not the bible say that when folks fornicate, they sin against their own flesh. Having said that, it's like this: A fornicating act that produces heterosexual sex, is a grievous sin, however, that act of heterosexual sex can be sanctified, if it's done within the auspices of marriage. A fornicating act that produces homosexual sex, is a grievous sin, however, that act of homosexual sex can never be sanctified, even if it's supposedly done within the auspices of marriage... -Or what about the famous Romans 1 text that people use to elevate “Homosexuality” above other sins, including murder? Well, what about verses 28-32? It isn’t even specifically mentioned! Though, terms there could definitely be applied to the homosexual lifestyle. And those that are there seem to be equally evil in God’s eyes.

-Or what about I Corinthians 6:9-10? Homosexuality is there but it is not elevated over the other sins is it?

-Or what about Revelations 21:8? The “cowardly and unbelieving” are mentioned first. Homosexuality is not specifically mentioned. Though, again, terms there definitely apply.

-The church should be equally put off by divorce, especially amongst believers, as they are by the idea of same-sex marriage.

*Doesn’t the Bible refer to homosexuality as an abomination? Does not the bible say that when folks fornicate, they sin against their own flesh.

Having said that, it’s like this:

A fornicating act that produces heterosexual sex, is a grievous sin, however, that act of heterosexual sex can be sanctified, if it’s done within the auspices of marriage.

A fornicating act that produces homosexual sex, is a grievous sin, however, that act of homosexual sex can never be sanctified, even if it’s supposedly done within the auspices of marriage…

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By: Bro. Lawrence D. http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/11/13/a-church-and-state-dichotomy-that-i-cant-understand/#comment-4474 Bro. Lawrence D. Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:36:05 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=1065#comment-4474 By the way, Jesse Lee Peterson was interviewed on the radio by Pastor John E. Coleman. You can go to his website, the link is in the right column, and listen. I think you have to click on "Ram Radio Days". By the way,

Jesse Lee Peterson was interviewed on the radio by Pastor John E. Coleman. You can go to his website, the link is in the right column, and listen. I think you have to click on “Ram Radio Days”.

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