Brotha you are something else! (and I mean that in a good way) I loved the post about the respectable sins. A message that is sorely needed in any time for sure.

I suspect that if we are to get into our differences of opinion with regards to ethics and morals, it will be a lengthy one, because even apart from Gods regenerative work, all men have a conscience, a sense of “right” and “wrong”. But I will endulge breifly.

1. Punishment for adultery should be capital! Line em all up and shoot em on the spot! Sorry, I had to inject some humor here. I cant say that there should be a penal assesment for adultery, just that there should be laws to promote good as a whole. Im not saying I have all the answers, nor that there are any laws that can make a person not commit adultery, homosexuality, or any other sin or crime. Surely sin is at the root of the problem, not the absence of laws and only God can solve that problem. But the things we APPROVE as a people is a barometer of where we are as a society as a whole.

2. There is a danger in the “if it doesnt effect me” ethic. I can give examples, that Im sure you would agree with.

3. I think you misunderstand me when I say transcendent laws. Transcendency is not subjective, but objective. While you are right that there is no “complete” list of transcendent laws, or at least one that is completely agreed upon, but for the most part, generally speaking there are laws of right and wrong that are a part of every human conscience that all men will agree if they are honest. Moral absolutes (like one you stated) that apply to all. Atheist, Jew, Christian, or otherwise. Otherwise, we get into moral relatavism and that is a slippery slope that has a horrible conclusion, with no morality at all and complete chaos and anarchy.

Amen. We should show our love in many ways. My comment “what better way” was not to be inclusive of all that a Christian should do, nor is it the best way (that was hyperbole) only one that can be powerful as a witness. I believe biblical faith does, as James says. Im not divorcing the two. Love in truth. My thoughts go back to the time when folk like you and I didnt have the opportunity to vote because of our skin color, or were abused, brutally enslaved, and on. When the excuse of not getting involved under the guise of Christs name to help the dissenfranchised by those who could help. I just believe there are a plethora of things we can do to truly be neighborly. For me, standing for the rights of others is among them. It has nothing to do with the gospel per se, but everything to do with standing for righteousness. But Im not advocating a social gospel, nor works righteousness before God. But our faith is played out in the real complex world, in real complex circumstances that there will always be differences as to expression of what we hold to be true.

Interesting comment on the role of the Christian in the political sphere. It was meant to be answered with regards to individuals, not corporately so I appreciate your reply. Obviously, it is one that the church, or Christians, have wrestled with for some time. And still do. But your humility in the matter is evident and that is appreciated.

Hotbed topics for sure right now! But it is good to see that honest, sincere brothers in Christ can express themselves in open dialogue agree or disagree, without being hurtful and most importantly realize Who it is that is on the throne!

To Him be the glory in this election and in all things!

I appreciate the dialogue. I will answer your questions (things that have question marks) and maybe make a few comments.

1. All Sin goes against the natural order. Gossip is no more “natural” as Homosexuality. I still have to ask do you think we should have laws on the book against adultrey? If so what should be the fine? 2 years? 1 year? Probation? $200 ticket? You can’t have it both ways. Adultrey is just as unnatural ask the spouse that was cheated on.

2. I believe it was neutral for the society from a legal/public standpoint. Morally it is wrong, but again legislating morality is something I am 100% against unless it harms public good. I think Homosexuality doesn’t effect me one way or the other.

3. Moral good from who’s perspective? The Athiest or the Christian? Which morality should be the norm?

4. I don’t believe that there is a complete transcendant law that should govern our behavior. Because that transcedant law would be subjective, one thing to me and something else to another. Who has the RIGHT to dictate that?

5. I believe it doesn’t cause public or private harm then let the States decide by the people.

6. I believe Homosexuality to be a sin, just like every other sin. In Proverbs God calls many things sin and even an abomination. I believe to be a homosexual and a Christian is an oxymoron, just as I believe to be a gossiper and backbiter, and greedy hoarder and a Christian is an oxymoron. I hold to a strong view of Lordship Salvation due to the fact I uphold New Covenant Theology and the gurantee of a New Heart that will love God and have a new disposition against sin. But here is something I wrote about a month ago

http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/10/01/letsssssssspllllaaaaaaaayyyyyy-the-abomination-game/

Now there is no individual nation that is God’s nation, now God is building a Kingdom of Believer priests from all nations, tribes and tongues whose behaviour is being sanctified by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit under the New Covenant Law of Christ.

So pointing to Johns Old Covenant ministry really does not have any bearing on how the government and laws are structured in America.

Thank you for your brotherly response.

As far as your question, I don’t believe that the Church collectively has any role in government. I believe that individuals must follow the dictates of their own conscience and hopefully it is well informed. However, I do find this statement troubling:

” What better way for a Christian to show their faith to the world in action then by standing for truth and justice. Voting for good is just that. That is a part of our witness I believe. Maybe not salt and light in the sense of the sermon on the mount, but a testimony of who we belong to and as righteous behaviour.”

Perhaps there is no better way to show our faith to the world in action than by standing for the truth. (Although, I would argue that showing love to our neighbor is much more powerful and more biblically consistent. It’s easier to convince someone of the truth that you believe when that person is confident that you love them dearly.) But if we’ve come to believe that voting is the best expression of that stand, then we’re further away from the gospel than I thought.