One of the questions that I used to ask Derrick and Angela was about their spiritual covering. It was a genuine question given my ecclesiology. The question after decoded from its spiritual jargon is really “which pastor are you sitting under”. Derrick would tell me that he wasn’t in need of such “covering” because he was mature in the faith and would quote Ephesians 4 as backup. He said that “the purpose of these gifts was for maturity, once a person is mature then what”. I didn’t have an answer, so that led me to study more on my own about the subject and I began to wonder what was the purpose of those gifts? I came to conclusion that it wasn’t for a Christian to sit under a “pastor” for the rest of his/her life. Either the goal is to (a) Get them healthy and mature that they can function on their own or (b) get them healthy and mature so that they can become leaders and make disciples, sort of like a manufacturing line, fresh disciples should be being produced.
Now I am sort of in the same boat. And I am being asked “who got you covered” my answer is quite simple, “the same person who has your pastor covered”. That person should be the Holy Spirit. Not to mention every single Christian. I wrote something a while back called “Submitted to All Under the Authority of Christ“. You see we believe in hierarchy not giftedness. We believe that every Christian should be under someone else’s “Authority” depending on what type of Church you go to that could be different individuals. A Senior Pastor, a group of elders, a Pope, a Bishop, an Apostle or a Prophet. So it really depends. But the same problem comes up. Exactly who authority are they under? If they are where the buck stops, then who has them covered and the problem begins there. If you say no one then you believe that one Christian is closer to God than the other. If you say the Church then all believers are free to function as they please and Derrick has the right answer.
What I find strikingly odd are the responses (or stones) thrown at such endeavors. What I mean is this. I have good brothers in the Lord that I love. “Pastors” that I read, listen to quite a bit on my IPOD, and honor as solid brothers in the Lord. However, if Christians decide to gather more “freely” it seems that you might as well had elected a gay bishop. Here are some concerns I hear:
1. Where is Church discipline in that
2. Where is the accountability
3. Who is going to “pastor”
It is funny that people believe that Organization is synonymous with Christianity. Most of that is derived from John Calvin’s ecclesiology. I have no desire to “live in sin” nor does anyone I have met or talked to who meet in a more simple format. Nobody wants to run buckwild with no accountability, and no one I know despises leadership. These are common misconceptions that I myself held to strongly. Elders are those mature men who are homegrown recognized by their service, discipline is dealing with your brother prayerfully going to him about his sin and then if it gets to that point breaking fellowship with him/her. Accountability comes in asking the tough questions everyday. I meet with a brother once a week. My wife and I get it in daily as we challenge each other, and I got a slew of good brothers like BLD, Tyris and Howard who I have a responsibility to stay open with and pour my life out and be exposed to.
Covering is not the issue, control is. People want to ensure that you are controlled not really cared for and the disciple met to care for one another. They led by serving and was recognized as elder brothers (not Elder Positions) because of their service and faithful handling of the word. Sin was dealt with because they were in each others lives. No one escaped under the radar as in most traditional churches, and it seems like they lived to meet each other needs and to challenge each other to live for Jesus by being salt and light. Let me know what you think.
Lionel,
That was one of the concerns that was given when I told the elders of my old fellowship that I was going out to help Phillip. I also have had that thrown into my face when I questioned some things that the box church does. How long should it take for someone to be mature enough to go out on their own? You know that should be a question to some of the pastors. Who was Pauls covering and the other apostles after Jesus died? They seemed to do pretty good holding each other accountable.
Thanks, Steven
Covering… We’ve bumped into this mentality even with people outside of the institutional church….
It proves that the belief in hierarchy as a safeguard against heresy and spiritual immaturity is not confined to those defended official leadership offices. It appeals to our fallen nature, to want to be “over” people, even if it’s just one person who’s “under” us. Many people I think are drawn to this idea, because it essentially creates a ladder that one can climb, providing a way for people to achieve affirmation and self-worth, the higher up the “chain” they are. Like some kind of spiritual pyramid scheme, gaining “maturity” is dependant on finding more new, beginner-disciples to fill the ranks beneath you, pushing you higher.
Definitely very different from how Jesus explained his kingdom…
“Many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first…”
Daniel
Daniel-
Exactly.
Wanting to be over or to put people under subjection is an expression of the fallen nature.
I think of the verse that states that false teachers desire to draw disciples way for themselves or after themselves.
An interesting use of words is used, they do not want God’s best for people, they want the people to be their disciples not Christ’s.
Hutch and Daniel,
You both make a great point. I remember always being told by pastors that they didn’t want anyone to steal their flock.
Or to lead their flock astray. Whose flock? Man or Christs?
Lionel-
You said: What I find strikingly odd are the responses (or stones) thrown at such endeavors. What I mean is this. I have good brothers in the Lord that I love. “Pastors” that I read, listen to quite a bit on my IPOD, and honor as solid brothers in the Lord. However, if Christians decide to gather more “freely” it seems that you might as well had elected a gay bishop. Here are some concerns I hear:
1. Where is Church discipline in that
2. Where is the accountability
3. Who is going to “pastor”
This may be overstating the issue, but as I see it, after you get past the guy trying to defend his job, you have a lot of folks expressing a serious distrust of the Holy Spirit’s ability to lead, guide and to sanctify those He has sealed unto the day of redemption, energized, gifted and equipped for service apart from the “help” of an unbiblical caste of human helpers. Think about how arrogant and more than a little gnostic that belief is!
Newsflash: Christ’s work on the cross is still sufficient for our salvation and sanctification!
Isn’t that promised to us in the New Covenant Hutch? Those who are His will be conformed it is a promise and why I hold to a New Covenant perspective of the scriptures. Maybe we are going to have to turn it up on that sooner or later :O)
But I will say this and maybe have to write about it. Today the church is more concerned about Submission than Serving. And that my friend is where I jump off the train because the destination is where Jesus tells the disciples not to go in Matthew 23.
Man let me be honest. I believe there is a church war today. Some brothers I love feel that it is your responsibility to sit in a church that they approve. To meet like they meet, have “expository” sermons like them. Read their books, worship like them. This is really about control and what I hear is “I have this conviction and so should you” instead of I agree that you are just as much as a church as we are. I believe in meeting more simply. I don’t want much to do with the way the church meets today, though I grew leaps and bounds under such books and such ministries. I currently have no reason to meet in such an enviornment. I believe they have a good alternative just as good as mine. I believe eventually you will have to go to seminary or just come to be coming after awhile. Perpetual infancy. Most of these churches clip the wings of their members by keeping them in perpetual laityism I think pushing out the nest is the way to go.
Steve,
You are right a lot of these men seem to be very possesive. My church, my saints and they love to be called by titles.
I think doing an interactive discussion with input from all of our brothers and sisters in Christ entitled what Christ accomplished for the church on the cross: salvation, an eternal inheritance, a commitment from God to conform us into the image of Christ, gifted us, gave us a priesthood, a ministry etc. etc. etc.
Another good discussion would be examples of servant leadership under the NC, the goal of servant leadership, the goal of exercising and ministering our gifts to one another, how Jesus defined successful ministry, how Paul defined and expressed successful ministry etc.
Only theology geeks like you and me want to scuba dive into NCT (yes, I still think the superior blessings of the NC are important), but if you make it practical and applicable perhaps we can all learn from each other and appreciate it more?
Lionel, I’m glad this is the conclusion you are coming to. Angie told me about this post. Stand my man, Stand for TRUTH.
Lionel,
My dear brother! What a delight you are! It seems we have the very same Pastor, whose crimson covering is all we need!
DTG,
Thanks brother. I thank the Spirit for using you and you for not shrinking away. Now I am an outcast! LOL
Aussie-J,
Thank you brother!
You got it there Lionel – covering is not the issue control is.
Sad but true – controling the flock seems way more important than caring for the flock.
I came to similar conclusions to you. After about a year of research and writing I’ve launched CoveringAndAuthority.com to educate people about this theology.