Yesterday at fellowship(Lord’s Supper) with the brethren we engaged in a interesting conversation in regards to politics. This is something I brought up simply because my view is somewhat changing about this issue largely due to a book I am reading about this-church and state etc…. We are really close at our fellowship and we all are pretty open(never really understood why this is such a discreet issue amongst people?) about our stances on politics and who we or who we are not voting for. This is one issue amongst us in our fellowship that we really really differ on. Most things we pretty much have the same mind but this is another story as I discovered yesterday.
I, on the one hand am NOT voting this election and laugh at the thought of it for various reasons. I along with the Elder at our congregation have the same view on this issue. I guess I jump on the Hyper-Calvinist camp on this issue. Others as we discovered are voting they say because they must “choose between the lesser of the evils.” Ummmm I think I will choose Abortion for $100 Alex”-”Nope not me, I will choose Gay Marriage for $200 Alex.” Being Sarcastic here, but I never have been able to grasp that logic but some seem to understand and make it walk on all fours. Logically it does not make sense to me. Furthermore some will say if you don’t vote for the lesser of the evils you are by your absence-voting anyway.
Linked here are the candidates Obama and McCain’s stances on the crucials-HERE.
This year the whole political game has agitated me more than ever. WHY?
- These candidates all talk the same game and fluff until they get elected and then what? Then the people who want to crucify you for not voting on what they consider the larger issues, they themselves aren’t involved in their neighborhoods voting for mayors or governor’s-somewhat hypocritical to me.
- I work nights and listen to Bott Radio Network(a somewhat Biblical radio station) and they constantly say ridiculous things like-”Obama is the anti-Christ” and they choose to vote for McCain because they say he is more conservative and has Christian Morals. Or to be just “real” about it-because he is Republican.
- On the secular stations like “Tom Joyner” they are a little less discreet and come out and basically say, “we voting for him because he is Black” or “This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and its about time I got my 40 Acres and Mule-Great Grand dad would be proud.” This is even said amongst some of the Black and Reformed Christian folk.
These are some of the questions I have and maybe we can discuss.
- Is the next President going to change this land for the better?
- What does it really mean to “vote for the lesser evil?”
- Is there a Biblical mandate for believer’s to vote?
- And please don’t say anything silly like, “your ancestors died-you better vote” or “Obama is your brother-brother” (Mark 3:32-35)
How about these Ty,
I’ll take protect Israel for $1,000 (well those who bless Israel..)
Ill’ take kill Muslims for $2,000 (They are a threat to this great Christian nation so we can bomb them but they can’t bomb us, because we are American God’s chosen nation)
I’ll take I am a Christian for $5,000 (if you are convinced that either of these men or Bush are Christians then I have a goose that lays golden eggs and a bean that leads to a Giant’s palace where you can get another goose, and I will sale them both for $400 dollars)
To answer your questions.
1. No! We haven’t gotten better since 1776 and we won’t, our Kingdom is not of this world. We long for a city built by the hands of God.
2. Vote for two evils. Uh…. I think not!
3. Sure! “render to Ceaser what is Ceaser’s” right? WRONG!!!!! Hermenutics 101: It can’t mean to you what it didn’t mean to them!
4. My anscestors expect me to vote for a Black Man. I used a Ouija board and they told me so! McCain is old and stiff and Barrack is young, handsome and black! Why not vote for him. We can finally stick it to the “white man”. They have oppressed us for 400+ years and we can finally give it to him! Did you see the way “they” treated OJ!
Lionel,
I must say, you seemed to have summed it up well.
I’m also not that interested in voting for the next president.
If you’ve been watching the news lately you can start to see the somewhat invsible world government at work through the international bankers. The presidents seem to only be spokesman for their agenda (the breakdown of national soverignty for complete rule over the world).
Ty,
I would like to say first of all this is good post.
We as Christians are not called to go out and vote. We are called to pray for those leaders and others though, but not vote. Our God given freedom is through Christ, not a politician or other person. We should be praying for these men and our other leaders. That is mandated by the word of God. So as Christians we are to also love our enemies whoever they maybe. We are to be a light. I am getting frustrated with all of the so called Christians calling Obama the anti-Christ etc. . That is not Christ like love. I am personally not for Obama, but I won’t be cutting him down. I don’t care for John McCain either and again I won’t be cutting him down. Maybe their policies, but not their persons.
Steven O.
“They choose to vote for McCain because they say he is more conservative and has Christian Morals.”
Apparently America already has a “more conservative Christian moral leader” who has been in charge for the past 8 years! Look at what has transpired on his watch.
Some “Believers” hold out this hope that if America can have an elected President with a “Christian based” moral outlook, they will somehow save this country. Looking at the past 8 years… I’d say… you get what you vote for!
01. The truth is, America is finished as a super power and is bankrupt! The economy teeters on collapse everyday and the next President doesn’t stand a chance to make this country better. There is too much at work against it!
02. Didn’t many elected representatives use that same logic in voting for the $700 Billion financial package? I think they put it as voting for bad or worse! In my opinion… if your stance is one of “Voting for the lesser evil”… I think… never mind!
03. I don’t know that there’s a biblical mandate that “requires” Believer’s to vote, but voting is simply making a choice! And it’s something Believers do each and everyday. We make a choice on where to worship, where to live, where to work (sometimes), what kind of vehicle to buy, foreign or domestic, Pepsi or Coke!
American politics is trapped in a vicious cycle where every 4 years, the party not in power undermines the party in power with an eye towards the next Presidential election. A house divided against itself…
I would challenge every American to cast their vote on November 4th, 2008! And for Believers who choose to do so, our vote should not be our hope! For our hope should not be rooted in this election… this country… this world!
-Selah!
Bro DJ,
That “house divided” paragraph about the vicious cycle of American politics is priceless! If you don’t mind, could I get you to contact: Albert Mohler, Matt Slick, Greg Koukl, James Dobson and any other person who doesn’t understand the connection? On second thought, I can’t in good conscience ask you to waste your time. LOL!!!
DJ,
Great points brother!
BLD,
Those gentlemen perpetuate the same false hope.
I stand with you family. I may vote for the local governemnt officials more than likely but the presidency is a whole different nut. You get the same story everyttime. Well people died so that you can vote. That is very true but folks died so that you could go to college to but many do not go. But also many died, and one man that had done to wrong, for the faith that we hold so dear and I think many forget that stance.
I am voting in this election because I have the privilage to vote for who I think will be the better president.
Sure no one is perfect and they most likely will not be able to accomplish all that they promise.
But I look at it this way, if I don’t vote I cannot complain about what happens to me from these people in government.
At least if I voted them in then I can be responsible for my choice and I can know not to do that again.
This process is about the freedom of choice. You tout all of these things on your web site but what do you say when your freedoms are taken away because you did not vote or stand up for what you think is right.
There is a measure on the ballot that if it does not pass will continue to allow gay marriages to be legal in California. We must vote to stand against that so that our voices can be heard.
If you don’t vote and that type of thing passes then you can not righteously complain about it.
Your vote counts Don’t throw away your right because you do not agree with the people or the process.
Thanks for your comments Observer. Greatly appreciate your visitation. I don’t know if you are a Christian or not but the scriptures are clear and complaining is sin-no question. I don’t know why people always say if you don’t vote you can’t complain-i know people who don’t vote and complain 24-7. Actually I have a lot of non voters who work for me and complain to me non-stop. They should employ this truth along with everyone you know-i would appreciate and it would save me a lot of time listening to them.LOL
I never have heard of “righteous complaining” sort of like saying “wicked saint”-a major contradiction. I personally don’t think the votes count. It really comes down to the electoral votes-although they say peoples votes really count but it comes down to the electoral votes even though they say peoples votes play a factor-i doubt that. What happend in Florida when Bush got elected? Don’t let me get into my wacky consipiracy theories but….I am glad you are voting-it is your liberty to do so. I on the other am not voting to KILL babies or to KILL people over seas or gay marriage and the list goes on and on. thanks again and God Bless you In Christ.
Dog…
I wish I had more time to comment moreso on the information….but seeing that I cracked up at Puffy with the “vote or die” gig, thought I’d give out something humorous on the issue that folks may get a laugh out of…
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol…elon.rally.cnn
Though it was humorous, there were some interesting points therein on the realities of how many decide to choose a cannidate…