I was reading some articles over at Monergism.com on tithing and giving. Here is one and below is an excerpt.
Where should the tithe go?
According to Malachi 3:10, the tithe was supposed to be brought into the storehouse, which was a place where the Jews delivered their offerings of grain or animals.
The storehouse had specific functions, including feeding the tribe of Levi (Numbers 18:24-29), feeding the Hebrew widows and orphans living within the Hebrew city (Deuteronomy 14:28-29), and feeding the Gentile poor living in the Hebrew city (Deuteronomy 14:28-29).
Ideally, the local church could serve as the storehouse in God’s economy today. God has designed the church to carry out vital social functions similar to those funded by the storehouse. Churches also should minister to the sick, teach families to care for themselves, and take the Gospel to the lost at home and abroad.
Some churches do not minister fully in these areas. Therefore, to the extent that a church lacks in a specific area of ministry, a portion of the tithe could be given to an individual or organization that is “filling in the gap.” However, remember that you cannot sit under the teaching of a local church without supporting it financially (see 1 Timothy 5:17-18).
Here are some challenges I want you to pose to your church if they agree with such hogwash:
1. Plain and simple since I tithe and since this is “my church” I want a key and full access to everything the building.
2. There is nothing that I pay a monthly note on that I don’t have full access to. So if I want to use part of the building to throw my grandmother a surprise party, or use it to house some homeless people at night, of if I just want to have some friends over to watch the Cowboys girls get destroyed then no one should have a problem with that.
3. There is nothing I invest in that I can’t control. So if I don’t like that a 100K wing is being built it shouldn’t be built. No one can come to my house and say they are building on it without my permission. Since it is my church then I should be able to decide what happens.
If you find any of the above absurd so should you the teaching that your giving should be “to the local church” because “you are being fed there” even worse you should “tithe” to the “storehouse” because you are robbing God. Plain and simple the people in the New Covenant gave as they pleased to whomever they pleased whenever the pleased! The laying of money at the feet of the apostles were free will and proven by Peter’s statement to Ananias and Sapphira. Also with the Philippians and the Corinthians.
So the next time you hear something like that, ask the three questions above. If it is “your church” that you should be “tithing or giving to” then you should have free access to it (note the operative word is should not can). But what happens is that it is more like our current Time Share model. Where they tell you when you can come, when you must leave, though you pay for it and they lie by telling you, that you own it. Hogwash. You don’t own it and that building is no more yours than the moon is yours. Likewise with the church manipulating you to be good stewards which decoded from Christian jargon really means “give to me so I can fulfill my vision that I believe is from God with your I mean God’s money”
Thanks for the comments and the visits. Hope to be back by the New Year. Tyris will still post here as far as I know so the blog isn’t going anywhere.
I am not going to argue the details of tithing, but I just found this one a little odd. You wrote, “3. There is nothing I invest in that I can’t control.”
Really? did you read your post prior to this one? Do folks really expect that when they invest in Wall Street they have total control of the company they invest in.
Okay, I know that is a little unfair and your context is churches (and I do not mean to imply that this invalidates the main emphasis of your post), but I could not resist a little poke at such a broad sweeping statement that does not seem to fit with reality.
Don’t let Jesse scare you off! LOL!
Lionel, it has been a pleasure to interact with your thought provoking posts. I keep wishing that me, you and Lawrence D. and others who have posted here could get together with our families and have a big meal and minister The Word to each other and encourage each other.
BTW: Regarding tithing, you are right. Among other things, the 33% Old Covenant “tithes” were also used to support the Old Covenant priesthood and the maintenance of the temple itself-now there is a new priesthood the priesthood of the believer and a new temple/building comprised of each individual believer.
One hundred percent of an individual’s possessions and resources belongs to God.
Under the New Covenant there is no set amount or percentage that a believer is required to give.
The New Testament is the clearest guide for the Christian. We can find everything we need for life and godliness in the things written to us, without having to dredge up rules for other people for other purposes. This does not denigrate or set aside the Old Testament at all, it simply places it in proper perspective, the perspective the New Covenant gives it.
Law preachers must go back to the Old Testament and even back to the uncertain institutions of the patriarchal age for their clearest authority on thing as there is no evidence for “Christian tithing” in the New Testament. That is why the tithing teachers must go back to the Old Testament, they usually avoid the New Testament entirely or worse they distort the New Testament to try to make it fit their theory. There is no command for a Christian to tithe anywhere in the New Testament.
BTW there is not a single individual who teaches tithing or practices what passes for tithing in churches that teach such, who actually tithe as commanded under the Old Covenant.
The two main motivations for Law Preachers/Tithing Teachers in teaching NT Storehouse tithing are: 1) to fund unbiblical projects with the congregation’s money such as paying for huge constructions loans and interest as well as “staff” salaries. Some churches waste almost all (up to 90%) of a congregations “giving” on buildings and staff salaries. 2) In order for unbiblical leadership to exercise “control” or “authority” over the funds “given” by a congregation that God’s Word does not give to them.
Believers are admonished to give regularly, as one has been prospered, cheerfully and sacrificially (2 Corinthians 9:17, I Corinthians 16:1-4, Romans 12:8,).
Giving in the New Covenant scriptures is used mainly to alleviate legitimate physical needs for ones own family (1 Timothy 5:8) especially widows (1 Timothy 5:3-4) then for those within the congregation and greater Christian community/help the poor (1 Corinthians 16:1-4), to support those on a legitimate/qualified missionary journey/church planting and in exceptional cases towards personal love gifts for a faithful elder who has labored hard for a season at preaching and teaching (1 Timothy 5:17-18).
The idea of paying a church staff to “do ministry” is alien and unheard of in the New Testament scriptures.
The work of the ministry including the teaching is to be done by the congregation of which the older and more spiritually mature brothers/elders are a part.
Elders like the rest of believers are to have their own gainful employment as to not be a burden to the congregation as patterned by the Apostle Paul.
All believers are to exercise their spiritual gifts within the congregation as their spiritual or reasonable act of worship to God and not for financial compensation (Romans 12:1-2).
The amount and place that a believer gives towards the work of Christ are between him and his Lord alone.
I”ll be checking back and looking for you. If you start another blog, shoot me a heads up, you have my e-mail address.
God bless you and your beautiful family my brother!
Lionel,
“Hogwash”, bulldust, bunkum, guff, rot and other unmentionable words. That’s telling it like it is.
The doctrines of grace are such a treasure to me, but thankfully I’m a child of the New Covenant.
The teaching you mention is in the same order as Alan Knox’s blog regarding Ignatious.
Joe,
Who says I invest in the market? Or better yet, I can control it what I invest by changing it tomorrow. LOL!
Hutch,
Thanks brother. In the words of some famous rapper “I ain’t never scared”! LOL. But going to read me some books, memorize a buch of scriptures and come back prepared! LOL. Just time for writing break. I will post some pictures of my new son in a month or so (my wonderul wife Charity is due soon).
I believe Acts 20 sums it up. My other problem is that you are right we are financing an institution not meeting the needs of an organism.
Mr. Aussi John,
Thanks for the kinds words sir. Can I borrow some of those words, I will pay .05 cents for copyright.
Hey Joe,
Does everyone get a key from you or not?
Friend, May I offer an alternative interpretation of Malachi for your study.
From: Tithing is not a Christian Doctrine
http://www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.com
Russell Earl Kelly, PHD
Malachi 3 is the Most Abused Tithing Text in the Bible. The “whole” tithe never was supposed to go to the Temple!
A. Malachi is Old Covenant and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev. 27:34; Neh. 10:28-29; Mal. 3:7; 4:4).
B. In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food 1000 years after Leviticus 27:30-34 and Numbers 18:21-28.
C. Malachi’s audience had willingly reaffirmed the Old Covenant (Neh.10:28-29). The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law. The rain in Deuteronomy 28:12, 23-24 and Leviticus 26:1-4 is only obtained by obedience to all 613 commandments. Galatians 3:10 (quoting Deu 27:26) “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” Trying to earn God’s blessings through tithing only brings curses for failure to keep all of the law. See also Galatians 3:19.
D. Beginning in 1:6 “you” in Malachi always refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (also 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5): “Even this whole nation of you –priests” (3:9). In 1:13-14 the priests had stolen tithed animals vowed to God. In Nehemiah 13:5-10 priests had stolen the Levites’ portion of the tithe. God’s curses on the priests are ignored by most tithe-teachers (1:14; 2:2 and 3:2-4).
E. Point #12 of the essay. The Levitical cities must be included in a correct interpretation of Malachi 3:10. Most tithe-recipients lived outside of Jerusalem.
F. The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included in a correct interpretation of Malachi 3. Normally only 2% of the total Levite and priest work force served at the temple one week at a time. Subtract wives, males under the age of 30 and daughters. Therefore 2% did not require all of the tithe. See 1 Chron 23-26; 28:13, 21; 2 Chron. 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5.
G. Nehemiah 10:37-39 is the key to understanding Malachi 3:10, The people were commanded to bring their tithes, not to the temple, but to the nearby Levitical cities. Verse 38 says that the priests were with the Levites in the Levitical cities when they received the tithes.
H. According to Nehemiah 13:5, 9 the “storehouse” in the Temple was only several rooms. The real “storehouses” were in the Levitical cites per Nehemiah 10:37b-38. Only the Levites and priests normally brought tithes to the Temple (10:38). Two rooms in the Temple were far too small to contain the tithe from the entire nation and 98% of the Levites and priests lived too far away to eat from them.
Therefore, Malachi 3:10’s “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” only makes contextual sense if it is only commanding dishonest priests to replace the tithes they had removed from it or had failed to bring to it.
While the 3:10 of the Law in Malachi is so important to tithe-teachers they ignore the 3:10 of the Gospel in Galatians and 2nd Corinthians. Perhaps those wanting to enforce the 3:10 Law of Malachi should also enforce the 3:10 Law of Numbers. They share the same context.
Christian giving is freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, regular and motivated by love. That is enough to provide the needs of the Church.
Lionel,
Peace and Grace to you my brother. it has been a pleasure to chop it up with you and build. May God bless you and the fam as you prepare for the new addition.
By the way, I hope you are not a Cowboy. Come down to the ville and we can holla. Go Titans!!!!!!
A key from me??? Oh, I see you are assuming that because of my previous comment that my church owns a building…
No, our church does not own a building so no one has a key and I have no assets to control.
When I planted Reunion, I felt, much like you, that that the money coming in should go to help people, not build a building. We don’t have any plans to buy one either. (As a side note, I don’t think it is unBiblical for churches to own property since I don’t recall any biblical command not to purchase it… and since I don’t believe in imposing Law on NC believers, I don’t judge other churches who do buy buildings.)
Besides, a large part of our ministry is to single moms, low income people, and non-Christians who have no relationship with Christ–so there is no money to be had. I don’t minister to folks based on how much they give, but on how much they need. I give a lot without demanding anything Lionel and it is one of the reasons my family has been without medical insurance and why we are close to loosing our home. Not that it matters, but I have risked everything earthly thing for Christ…
Given my convictions, I took a totally different approach when I planted.
I started a non-profit called Restoring the Arts I am trying to build a community center using only grants from the secular world. The center will be there to serve the needs in our community, and provide a place for kids and families.
Our church could use the building, like any other community group, but it would not be owned or paid for by the church in any way.
so no one gets a key Lionel…
Personally, I think your point #2 about, “if I give $$$ then I want a key” sounds like the typical thinking of a a consumer minded person. No knock on you, it is just the culture we live in that alwasy wants to know, “what’s in it for me.” and always wants control over “stuff.”
I used to work in a Chinese church and there were many families that lived 2 or 3 generations in one home (my wife is also Mexican and this happens a lot in this ethnic group as well). Everyone living in this one home had to contribute to the household. If they all had the same attitude as you, “I contribute so I should get a key so I can do what I want and when I want” their home and families would be a wreck.
I am not arguing for the way things are done now in churches (I have been there in the past and don’t like it). I just think you are using consumer-based reasoning to argue for a community mindset. For me, the two don’t mix.
Okay, this turned into more of a ramble than a response, but that is just my 2 cents brother.
And just in case you don’t know, I love you brother and enjoy the dialogue… the only regret is that it is so impersonal over a blog. Blessings.
Joe,
I ain’t trying to say whats in it for me but that all saints have ownership. If not then its not “my” church as is always sold but it is the leaders church and they decide what to do.
I know you own no buildings I actually love you and McManus’ philosphy. I listened to him for years before I got into the “postmodern arguement”. Now that I am over that, I have enjoyed him dearly.
Brian and Joe,
I will now bombard your sites with questions and poke with you guys. By the way Brian whats wrong with you, talking about an annointing man of God like Jamal! Remember “touch not”!
I look forward to hearing from you brother Lionel.
I see your little poke at the Cowboys, but my question to you is who are the Detriot Lionnesses? Anyways, I hope all is well for you when you leave. God bless, it’s been great learning and blogging with you. Lord willing, see you next year.
Karsten Miller
Lionel,
What a surprise to hear you are leaving for a while. I just want to say God Bless you and you are loved in the Lord.
You are a brother who stirs people and I love that about you.
I was just talking to my wife last night about the tithe issue. My old fellowship is wanting to sell the Barn they meet in. It is completely paid for. I told her I wander if I could get my share of the money back. Joking of course. I am in disgust of hearing the preacher saying you have to pay the Levites. Well, then here are some groceries or a bull. Anyway take care.
Sincerely, Steven Owen
Sounds like God is telling you to take a break from posting for a while, and that’s probably something we all need to do at times (I know how obsessive I get…)
You’re thoughts on the tithing issue are on the mark. It is one of the most commonly abused parts of scripture in modern times. Your questions about “where’s my key” made me think of an old post I read on Brant Hanson’s blog (Letters from Kamp Krusty) about a radio show he did once where they were having people call in and talk about having weddings in the church building. Isn’t it bizarre that the very people who are being pressured to give monthly to pay for a building, then have to cough up thousands of dollars to use it for something as basic and important as getting married? It really exemplifies the absurdity of the whole thing. It’s “the congregation’s” building when the offering plate is being passed, and then if you want to use it for anything outside of an “official” church function, you’re gonna have to pay.
Here’s the link http://branthansen.typepad.com/letters_from_kamp_krusty/2008/09/i-get-in-these-conversations-and-i-officially-dont-understand-them.html
Thanks for all the great posts, and all the stimulating conversations.
Congratulations on your new baby,
In Christ, Daniel
Brother…first off the bat…I love you, and I love the post! But you need to chill with the prideful and condescending attitude. The scripture teaches us that if you are indeed on point with something, with meekness, you are to correct your fellow brotheren. Remember, unless you are Jesus, you are not perfect on all scriptural exegesis either. How would you like for someone to vehemently bash and mock you for scriptual errors you currently have? We should all be helpers and correctors of one another with a humble spirit. Being vainglorious is counter productive. Truly indeed, it is our intention that all come to the knowledge of the truth, correct? So why turn people off to the point that they don’t hear truth?
Ricdarula,
You said:
Brother…first off the bat…I love you, and I love the post! But you need to chill with the prideful and condescending attitude.
Iwill take that in to considersations next time someone calls another believer cursed and that they have robbed God by not paying their membership dues!
Are we to return wrong with wrong? God forbid. You are smarter and more intelligent than that. Those that are in error need to be delivered of such, and Lionel you should be one of the vessels that lead the way.
Ricdarula,
Can you post what I have put here that is judgmental or unbiblical? Thanks.
The following “Question” was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.
Question
Does God require me to give a tithe of all I earn?
Answer
Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary).
The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel.
Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite’s tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today’s income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation.
All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified.
New Testament believers are never commanded to tithe. Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age, which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government–a figure very similar to the requirement under the theocracy of Israel.
The guideline for our giving to God and His work is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: “Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.”
Now you come to 2 Corinthians, chapter eight, and you learn how the church gave. The church knew there was a need so the church gave. How did they give? Well, it wasn’t 10%, it says, “The churches in Macedonia, 2Cor 8:1, gave abundantly out of deep poverty. It says that their deep poverty abounded to the riches of their liberality.” Here was a very poor church in Macedonia, very poor, but they gave generously, out of their hearts liberally. In fact, verse three says, they gave beyond their ability. They gave more than they should have given–more then they could of given, and the reason they did that was in verse five, because they first gave themselves. I mean when you give yourself then everything you have belongs to the Lord. So, Paul is saying to the Corinthians, “If you want a lesson in giving, look at these people–out of deep poverty they gave everything they had.” In fact, they gave more then they should of, but they did that because they had already given themselves to the Lord. Now you have the key motive in giving; what is the right motive in giving? It is not to get anything. It is in that whole hearted abandonment, “they gave everything.”
Thanks Randy