“I finally got it!!” I spent 4 years in a Prosperity-Word of Faith cult, 1 of which I was awakened to my ignorance by the grace of God and then decided to get out and search for a Biblical body of believer’s. I could imagine this is how I felt once the Lord rescued me from that madness. 8 months later I would find a church; join and from this point-trying as hard as I could to keep away from the likes of the heresies taught by many faith teachers and charlatans. In my attempt to do this I; in my Reformed(Biblical) circles, skip over the scriptures that speak of things that seem charismatic or too faith oriented to grasp. I gradually place “Faith” on the shelf of the past and proceed for Biblical sound doctrine since I finally found what I was looking for. This is going to be somewhat of a culmination of what I have been studying and experiencing in the past couple of months on finances, faith, and life..so please excuse the clutter.
First let me clarify that I am trying very hard to lose the term “Reformed” and hence forth, that word will be replaced with “Biblical.” I have hastily come to the conclusion that reformed does not describe what I believe and is too broad of a term to really encompass who I(we) am in Christ. “Biblical” can more closely define who we are in Christ. I, along with Lionel am reading “The Reformers and Their Stepchildren”, by Leonard Verduin. This book is great and closely examines the reformation and brings to light-when we say reformed-what do we really mean?
I am a part of a great home congregation in which i believe the Lord is leading and has been with us and guiding us daily. Now I finally found a Biblical church and got away from the craziness. To my surprise I come to the knowledge that these believer’s like so many in the Charismatic circles have experiences to go along with their testimonies just like those in the Word of Faith churches. Is this wrong or is it Biblical? Isn’t there a little subjectivity along with everyone’s objective faith in Christ? Yes, just think of Moses, Samuel, Paul and so many others. Now what about “Faith” and what part does that play in “Biblical” circles. How do we build our Faith? How is Faith apart of our every day lives? Do we allow the Lord room to show Himself? Faith seemed to be such a integral part of peoples lives in the time when Christ was ministering before His ascension. I just recently realized that in my attempt to get away for the Charis-mania that I somehow lost the zeal to exercise Faith in ways that would not exactly fit into western christian reformed circles. What do I mean? Well, this may seem simple to some but…the last time your car broke down, what did you do? When your air conditioner went out in your house…when your family member died and you did not have the money to travel…when your child was sick..when you were sick…
Well I can answer for myself and say..I without thinking ran to my credit cards before praying for the Lord to intervene or provide without going into debt and using other resources. When my son gets sick I run to the doctor sometimes while praying other times without praying about it until afterwards. What aspects of our life in this western world do we see the Lord moving mightily and the result only able to be attributed to the work of God. My next book read is going to be on the life of George Mueller. I have heard rave reviews of this man and his faith, prayer life, and testimony.
I have read so many “Biblical” books about the Apostles and the works they did and for the life of me cannot be satisfied by this answer—-The miracles and work that the apostles did was only to authenticate the Gospel. HOGWASH!!! Exegetically being faithful to the texts we cannot make that answer walk on all four’s. It just does not hold water. I have stood by that answer for a long time now and it just is an excuse for us to explain away, possibly our lack of faith. I have even stood by Macarthur’s explanation (1 Cor 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.) about gifts but how we exclude certain gifts and then keep others?
Here is the question I leave you. How do we know when to exercise faith and believe God versus handling it ourselves? Is their a relationship of Faith and Works modeled by Abraham in laying with his wife after receiving the promise of a child? Are we to view our Faith as Synergistic or Monergistic? These are questions I ponder a lot in seeking the Lord about many things like salvation of loved ones, getting out of debt to be freed up for missions and ministry, and the lists goes on. Throughout the entire New Testament we are constantly reminded of the faith of others and how the Lord uses faith in the life of His people. Again…
How do we know when to exercise faith and believe God versus handling it ourselves?
T,
I want to pose a question to your question if I may. Can we really divorce the two? If need finances I can’t just sit at the house and pray all day. I have to get up and see if I can do something to get some extra dollars. Now in the process of getting the money I still need to exercise faith that God will provide the finances or a way for me to make it through.
or
I will give you a scenario that is palying out in my life. I have a 12 year old son. His mother is sloppy she doesn’t push him to excel in school. She never spends anytime with him and many other things that leave me wonder if she is a fit mother. When I pick him up his clothes are dirty,smelly and he never has a haircut. (nothing abusive she is just complacent with poverty) My son loves his mother though which is understandable. Now, my personal thought is to take her to court but she is a believer. So my actions are geared up to take her to court (because she does it to me )but the faith issue screams loud. I know the scripture is adament about not taking another believer to court so I have honored that but in the meantime my son still grows up not being taken care to correct standards. Like I said early she is always taking me to court to get more child support.
So do I handle it myself and take her to court or do I continue down the road of faith and allow God to do his thing in the end.
At the end of the day I just don’t know.
Bro Tyrus,
You may not post often but when you do…….watch out! I guess we are all reexamining our abandonment of even things that we’ve personally experienced, simply because they appear “weird” to some people. I’m with you on this. When it comes to the problems in life that reach beyond our abilities, we must exercise faith. The only problem is when we have faith in faith instead of faith in Christ. That is the problem with the Word of Faith Movement. They have faith in faith, which turns out to be faith in themselves, which turns out to be idolatry.
I believe that each time Christ either implored someone to have faith, rebuked someone for a lack of faith, or commended anyone for having faith, that He was actually talking about faith in relation to Himself. I don’t believe that we have faith like a membership card in the wallet that we pull out whenever we have a “need”. We trust Christ in every situation and by experiencing the Romans 8:28 life, our faith should be strengthened.
Brian thanks for the comments.. It appears people do try hard unintentionally to divorce the two or explain the faith part away. Just my thoughts. I think and really agree that they cannot be divorced. But Brian what about things you have no control over and all you can do is believe? Well, really to be honest we have no control over anything but sometimes we get the delusion from our works that we do. I am getting off track here. Sorry about your son and his mother seems to be an interesting believer to say the least. I also read about your mother..my mother had breast cancer last year and did chemo and radiology..she survived and is doing well. Do you all still need financial help? God Bless
Dacus, we have know of each other too long for you to still be jacking up my name like that-it is Tyris!!! Smokie Norful looking dude.. LOL just joking. thanks for the comments. I have not had a computer since April. My computer had virus and I am still too lazy to fix it. Plus with this new gig i have less time. Maybe I should exercise my Faith. I am going to get back into the blogging thing soon enough. I think Lionel covered all the good topics while I was absent though. God Bless
Tyris,
That is another kid’s mother that blogs on line. I came across his blog actually from a few other sites including Lionel. He is asking for help for his mother. So please keep him in your prayers and help him if you can.
Tyris-
Amen, Amen, Amen…
didmention that I said Amen?
I have been contemplating the same things lately.
Brian,
What do you think my answer would be to your question about your wife?
I think you know the answer and my answer.
hi brian,
if your child’s mother is really a Christian (as unbecoming as you make her sound), and you earnestly feel you would be violating Scripture by taking her to court, would she be willing to let you raise your son since, by your estimation, he seems to be a burden to her?
hi tyris,
)
long time no see!
Lionel,
I do not understand the question about my wife. I never said anything about my wife.
Ms.Maverick,
That is one of the reasons I moved back SC was for my son to move with me. But she has rejected from the jump.
Brian,
I didn’t mean wife. I meant sons mother. I was typing on the go.
Tyris you said:
If I could pay a million dollars for a quote this would be number one on my list kinfolk. Man this is such a huge statement. It is funny because I had the opportunity to listen to Becky Black (Dr. Black’s Wife) talk about many of the miraculous things that were going on in Ethiopia and how God was moving. I believe that the bible is the third person in the Trinity in the west. We are too educated, to smart, to theologically sound, to trust the moving hand of God to work in our lives supernaturally. Again brother if I could pay you for the quote I would.
I read often but haven’t commented in quite some time. But I couldn’t let this one pass without commending you on it. This shows a great deal of maturity to address this topic in such a manner. It’s long been amazing to me that the topic of faith and God’s power would actually become taboo. And in many cases it has.
I think the challenge lies in keeping it in it’s proper perspective, but you seem well on your way to doing so. Keep studying and keep believing!
The Spirit of err!
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Reformed Theology is not the truth, Christ is. Has always been. But, now that you have exhausted that little cup called Calvinism and reformed systematic theology, you still hunger! Jon 7:37
And someone’s telling you, that you need the spirit! A special effusion, to satisfy.
Am I watching another melt down? Another casualty of dead orthodoxy? And the enemies timely usurpation of the real answer? JESUS! Col 2:9,10
The Spirit is given, to make Jesus your fullness. “ he will not glorify himself!”
But demons will.The spirit this, that and the 3rd. Dreams, visions, wild inexplicable events,( go to grace-bible.com and listen to latest message, and wake-up) The whole religious world is being deceived, by paganism, and the kundalini, to depart from the truth. Be warned!
For years, I’ve heard this dribble from liberal theolgians and scholars. And when I press them on the apostacy, it’s sign, symptoms and effects, they have no answers.
It is a faith problem. But, the pseudo charismata, which is making in roads to reformed communities, will only make it worse, after a few thrills of course!
By Grace, Alone!
Jesse Gistand,
Am I mistaken or is your church featured on the “Black Reformed Churches” website? Do they know your stance on Calvinism or Reformed Theology? I live 50 miles from you and was considering visiting. I’m curious to know what you DO believe.
Hey Mav, doing good. Miss talking to you and D. Hope you both have been well!
Brother Lionel-you can pay me-this is a non for profit organization-i thought you knew- thanks for the kind words brother.
Jesse? Not sure exactly what you are getting at brother? Jesus is the truth you are right there. Just to ensure we are on the same page..What I have said is that there are many things I don’t agree with Calvin on along with many of the reformers. But TULIP is accurate according to scripture. So I don’t agree with everything Calvin may have taught but there are some theological truths that he has correctly pulled from the scriptures. Let us not forget Calvin was not the first to come across these truths..he was just the first to somewhat popularize them and put them in acronymic form. Your last 4 senctences somewhat confused me…what are you saying exactly? Thanks for the clarification in advance.
Jesse,
Get out here with that foolishness dude. LOL!
Lionel LOL!!!
To brother Lawrence, and Tyus,
gbc@flash.net, anytime you want to discuss theology, the doctrines of Grace, Church history, the apostasy, etc.
If you go to the site, and listen , you will know, if I speak of myself, or of another! “Christ is all”
And if you live only 50 miles away, you can listen to me everyday on the largest station in California. KFAX100am 12:00noon mon-Fri.
My point is very clear! While reformed theology sets a frame work for understanding the God of the bible in terms of the redemptive work of Christ, it is critical for the believer to know what it means to live on Christ, Himself, as the life of the gospel. John 14;6
And that many, many in the reformed community have come to doctrine, and not to the Savior. They’ve switched from Arminianism, or pentecostalism, or other, only to find, they have not been fulfilled, with the reality, which is Christ , himself. Being disappointed, they have made themselves succeptible to this psuedo-charasmatic, delusion.
Isa 66:1-4 / 2cor 11:1-4 / Rev 20:7,8
Lionel, just demonstrated the frustration, that comes with missing this reality. ( Lionel did you listen to the sermon?
Or, are you to proud to be helped?) You are a bright young man, but you are slipping, and you need to catch yourself.
Our hunger for GOD MUST be met in Jesus, by the SPIRIT, through the word of God. John 16:8-15
The Spirit of God, would never teach you, to talk like Lionel has been talking , or those who are an advocate of a higer faith experience. John 17:17
And as for the doctrines of grace, I preach teach, believe and reinforce them, as the framework, but Christ is the message. The gospel is a person!
You canot have the true Christ, without properly understading the doctrines of Grace.
But you can have the doctrine, and not have Christ!
And there is no satisfaction, there!
God cannot lie, fail, or change. Christ satisfies!
Jesse,
1. What delusion do you speak of? Please define it.
2. What areas am I “slipping” in?
3. So you are saying if one does not understand the Doctrines of Grace they don’t know Jesus. And I am slipping?
BTW, I am no more frustrated then anything else
“I’m not totally depraved, and utterly helpless!
I dont accept your view on Soevereign election!
Christ died for everyone. He paid for everyones sins!
including, Pharoahs, Nebebchunezzar, Judas Escariot, etc
People can lose their salvation, when they walk away from the Lord!
Judas was saved, He just didnt hold out!”
Such a person is ignorant of the gospel. The gospel is the person and work of Jesus Christ. 1cor 2:2
If you get His work twisted, you do not know Him!
Ps9:16 Mth 7:21-23
” You bring many good subjects to the floor of consideration young man. I enjoy many of them, and comment very seldom.I haven’t chimed in for months. And will keep it that way.”
Your diatribe on faith is suspect. The course of argument, is liberal, and as I warned you, has very dangerous consequences, which are already operating in the life of many, who undermine the veracity and potency of the Word of God.
The issue with alot of folks, is not that the bible is insufficient. It’s that they don’t KNOW IT! Ps 119:96
They pretend to be serious about the scriptures, and speak of things they don’t understand, and suffer a disorientation, when God doesn’t shine His glorious light, into their dark hearts, through His glorious record! Isa 8:15,16
And they mock his truth, calling it an idolatrous 3rd person!
Hence the delusion begins!
We are clear. We need not continue this discussion.
God bless you!
Have you ever been reading something while drinking a Coke and what you were reading made you luagh out loud and Coke spewed out your nose?
Well, I am cleaning off my keyboard and monitor!
BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Jesse,
I will keep that in mind next time I read my bible. Thanks.