Comments on: Equipping Ourselves Out of a Position: A Case for Mutuality http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/08/28/equipping-ourselves-out-of-a-position-a-case-for-mutuality/ "But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises." Hebrews 8:6 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:18:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: lionelwoods7 http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/08/28/equipping-ourselves-out-of-a-position-a-case-for-mutuality/#comment-2618 lionelwoods7 Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:24:33 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-2618 Thanks Skwirl, I have seen your blog and your comments on The Assembling I am grateful for your kind words brother. Thanks Skwirl,

I have seen your blog and your comments on The Assembling I am grateful for your kind words brother.

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By: Skwirl http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/08/28/equipping-ourselves-out-of-a-position-a-case-for-mutuality/#comment-2616 Skwirl Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:36:37 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-2616 The is my first time reading your blog, and I'm very impressed. Kudos to you and everyone who thinks like you! The is my first time reading your blog, and I’m very impressed. Kudos to you and everyone who thinks like you!

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By: lionelwoods7 http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/08/28/equipping-ourselves-out-of-a-position-a-case-for-mutuality/#comment-2607 lionelwoods7 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:16:00 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-2607 Thanks Pastor Jim, I was just asking Ty about you a couple days back. I thought you were raptured. Thanks Pastor Jim,

I was just asking Ty about you a couple days back. I thought you were raptured.

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By: Jim Elliff http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/08/28/equipping-ourselves-out-of-a-position-a-case-for-mutuality/#comment-2606 Jim Elliff Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:31:14 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-2606 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another .... Interesting post, Lionel. We're into this idea here. At least we're trying (www.ChristFellowshipKC.org). Most of these letters of Paul should be seen more corporately. For instance, in the passage above, which you quote, the words "letting the word of Christ dwell richly, teaching and admonishing" is often taken to be a command to the individual. But Paul actually means that we should, as a BODY, see to it that the word dwells richly among us. The verse before this (Col. 3:15) illustrates this so well. It says, "And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful." If you read that individualistically, you will be seeking personal peace as an indicator of God's will. "I have peace ruling in my heart." But Paul is speaking corporately, yielding a very different meaning: "Let peace be the referee among you, the peace you were called to share as a body." There is a huge difference. So, as you eloquently showed us, we are to think of ourselves as a body functioning together with what every part supplies. We are to think of the whole by each contributing our part. The pastors are to make room for these contributions to the body, making sure that people are equipped to contribute their lives and special gifts to each other. Without this dynamic, the church is weakened. The body atrophes and becomes sickly. Just a restatement of what you are saying. God's best to you. JimElliff 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another ….

Interesting post, Lionel. We’re into this idea here. At least we’re trying (www.ChristFellowshipKC.org).

Most of these letters of Paul should be seen more corporately. For instance, in the passage above, which you quote, the words “letting the word of Christ dwell richly, teaching and admonishing” is often taken to be a command to the individual. But Paul actually means that we should, as a BODY, see to it that the word dwells richly among us.

The verse before this (Col. 3:15) illustrates this so well. It says, “And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.” If you read that individualistically, you will be seeking personal peace as an indicator of God’s will. “I have peace ruling in my heart.” But Paul is speaking corporately, yielding a very different meaning: “Let peace be the referee among you, the peace you were called to share as a body.” There is a huge difference.

So, as you eloquently showed us, we are to think of ourselves as a body functioning together with what every part supplies. We are to think of the whole by each contributing our part.

The pastors are to make room for these contributions to the body, making sure that people are equipped to contribute their lives and special gifts to each other. Without this dynamic, the church is weakened. The body atrophes and becomes sickly.

Just a restatement of what you are saying. God’s best to you. JimElliff

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By: Deacon http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/08/28/equipping-ourselves-out-of-a-position-a-case-for-mutuality/#comment-2605 Deacon Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:12:18 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-2605 Usher: Consider a missionary leader without a title, who goes to a foreign land and refuses to commune with the expatriots of the land i.e., he spends all of his time with the people he has been sent to minister to, not hanging out with the western church nestled in the middle of the foreign land. His ministry is small, but people are committed and he is committed to bringing them along as true disciples. Deacon: How does he get fed? Usher: He gets fed from the Holy Spirit and by the fact that the people have embraced him because he is the first westerner that has made this type of full commitment to them. This goes on for about four years. His wife then is diagnosed with cancer and he begins the struggle of ministering to the people while he raised three young children and spends numerous visits to the hospital with his wife. Deacon: Doesn't he fulfill the minister role in their church? Usher: No, he simply hangs out with them and ministers in their homes with the sole intent of raising them up as disciples to minister in their circles. Deacon: So what happens? Usher: Well. his wife is sick for 5 years and exhausts all of the resources of the local university hospital. Though they are on the cutting edge of oncology, they do not have any more treatments for his wife as she has run the cycle on all the chomotherapy and there is simply no option left. The University oncologist calls back to the US and is instructed to tell the family that if they leave (with only 3 days notice), they will be able to get to the US in time for an experimental treatment at the top hospital back in the US. They leave everything and go back to the US. Deacon: What then? Usher: 4 more years go by, numerous treatments of chemo and radiology - she battled for 9 years and eventually passes from a brain aneurism. Deacon: And? Usher: He is involved in more discipling all through his time in the US. He works primarily with young people who hang out with his children. Two are college age now and a third is high school. They travel back to this foreign land (he has kept up communications all this time, but left the ministry up to God), because they still dearly love the people and because he raised his children in this country, they are partial to the people and the culture of their formative years. He returns with a young team to minister to college-age people as an overseer. Though he tells no one of his intent to return, word gets out. One of his old friends invites him to a prayer meeting upon his arrival. Deacon: Nice story, but what does this have to do with this blog posting? Usher: 3,000 people show up at the prayer meeting to welcome this discipler back! Three thousand people! He has been humbled and amazed at the work God has done and is doing. Much of it came from things he did not even consider important. His wife's cancer and the hardships brought on the family actually gave God more glory than anything he could have ever preached. Note: He never took a title, he never chose to become their "leader", he was their friend. His wife wouldn't let him stop ministering even though she was sick. He refused to treat his ministry as a 9-5 occupation and embraced the people. He ate with them, he washed clothes with them, he helped them through their everyday ordeals, he lived among them in their neighborhood and he went to meetings with them as one of them, not as their "leader". He considered himself not as one better or more accomplished than them, just one of them. He operated in the gifts mentioned in Ephesians, he didn't adorn his mantle with the giftings. He evangelized, he doesn't consider himself an evangelist. He taught, though he doesn't consider himself a teacher. He is an elder of the highest regard by his peers, he just doesn't need the title to operate in it. And most of all, he equipped the people he discipled and now the movement he began has feet, legs and power not from him, but from Christ. Christ used him in powerful ways even after he was long gone. Deacon: Is this all true? Usher: All true. He longs for the day when he can return. The day is soon approaching. Usher: Consider a missionary leader without a title, who goes to a foreign land and refuses to commune with the expatriots of the land i.e., he spends all of his time with the people he has been sent to minister to, not hanging out with the western church nestled in the middle of the foreign land. His ministry is small, but people are committed and he is committed to bringing them along as true disciples.

Deacon: How does he get fed?

Usher: He gets fed from the Holy Spirit and by the fact that the people have embraced him because he is the first westerner that has made this type of full commitment to them. This goes on for about four years. His wife then is diagnosed with cancer and he begins the struggle of ministering to the people while he raised three young children and spends numerous visits to the hospital with his wife.

Deacon: Doesn’t he fulfill the minister role in their church?

Usher: No, he simply hangs out with them and ministers in their homes with the sole intent of raising them up as disciples to minister in their circles.

Deacon: So what happens?

Usher: Well. his wife is sick for 5 years and exhausts all of the resources of the local university hospital. Though they are on the cutting edge of oncology, they do not have any more treatments for his wife as she has run the cycle on all the chomotherapy and there is simply no option left. The University oncologist calls back to the US and is instructed to tell the family that if they leave (with only 3 days notice), they will be able to get to the US in time for an experimental treatment at the top hospital back in the US. They leave everything and go back to the US.

Deacon: What then?

Usher: 4 more years go by, numerous treatments of chemo and radiology – she battled for 9 years and eventually passes from a brain aneurism.

Deacon: And?

Usher: He is involved in more discipling all through his time in the US. He works primarily with young people who hang out with his children. Two are college age now and a third is high school. They travel back to this foreign land (he has kept up communications all this time, but left the ministry up to God), because they still dearly love the people and because he raised his children in this country, they are partial to the people and the culture of their formative years. He returns with a young team to minister to college-age people as an overseer. Though he tells no one of his intent to return, word gets out. One of his old friends invites him to a prayer meeting upon his arrival.

Deacon: Nice story, but what does this have to do with this blog posting?

Usher: 3,000 people show up at the prayer meeting to welcome this discipler back! Three thousand people! He has been humbled and amazed at the work God has done and is doing. Much of it came from things he did not even consider important. His wife’s cancer and the hardships brought on the family actually gave God more glory than anything he could have ever preached.

Note: He never took a title, he never chose to become their “leader”, he was their friend. His wife wouldn’t let him stop ministering even though she was sick. He refused to treat his ministry as a 9-5 occupation and embraced the people. He ate with them, he washed clothes with them, he helped them through their everyday ordeals, he lived among them in their neighborhood and he went to meetings with them as one of them, not as their “leader”. He considered himself not as one better or more accomplished than them, just one of them. He operated in the gifts mentioned in Ephesians, he didn’t adorn his mantle with the giftings. He evangelized, he doesn’t consider himself an evangelist. He taught, though he doesn’t consider himself a teacher. He is an elder of the highest regard by his peers, he just doesn’t need the title to operate in it. And most of all, he equipped the people he discipled and now the movement he began has feet, legs and power not from him, but from Christ. Christ used him in powerful ways even after he was long gone.

Deacon: Is this all true?

Usher: All true. He longs for the day when he can return. The day is soon approaching.

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