Bro Lawerence D has written what I think to be one of the most thought provoking post on Christian Fellowship. Please check it out. I am going to leave you with a teaser. Please engage the conversation man he raises some serious points. I don’t know what to say because I really have sided with those like James White but may have to admit that I am wrong and many of our great theologians are wrong also:
Let’s say that tomorrow it was declared that all U.S. citizens who professed to be Christians had to report to the nearest major sports facility (coliseum, remember the one in Rome in the first century?) to be interviewed by the government. Let’s say that the ones who did not report were turned in by those who knew that they professed to be Christians and then were rounded up by law enforcement. So let’s take it for granted that they got all professing Christians together in each individual county. Let’s say that the initial interview consisted of threats of death if you held true to your faith. Now let’s assume that every member of every group which is considered a cult group refused to affirm Christ as Savior and Lord and escaped. So after days of interviews, everyone who held firm ends up on their respective areas’ football field, baseball diamond or basketball court. Now let me ask a few questions:
1. Would their only be Calvinist there? Only Arminians? Or how about only Cessasionist? Or only Charismatics? Or only Trinitarians? Or only Oneness?
2. Would we be surprised to see that brother or sister who holds that other position there? If so, would you believe that their martydom meant absolutely nothing because they believed in tithing? or baptized babies? or thought they chose Christ?
3. Would there be any theological debates going on? Or would anybody be preaching an ”Are you sure your saved” sermon?
4. Would we clique up in our groups that day? Would we care so dearly about our denominational distinctives? Would the blacks be only with the blacks and the whites only with the whites and so on?
5. If that brother or sister standing near you began to pray and suddenly broke out in tongues, would you move away? Or would you join hands with them and just pray the way you pray?
6. If they allowed us to have our bibles (a miracle it would be in itself) would we argue over which version was the correct one?
7. Would anyone be monitoring what another had on?
8. WOULD WE HAVE UNPRECEDENTED AND UNPREJUDICED FELLOWSHIP WITH ONE ANOTHER?
Lionel,
I love you, my brother.
Keep it up.
Peace,
Keith
Thanks so much. I actually subscribed to your newsletter and enjoyed my first one (I got it the other day). God bless. Sir and keep up the good work. It is lovely to see the diversity in the body.
Reminds me of some of the things I was thinking on earlier—-regarding how what ultimately matters is whether or not you’re a disciple and how for those in areas facing severe persecution of the saints, many of the Secondary Doctrines we all proudly hold to may become of no use or importance when the reality of “Do you Love Christ?” comes up.
http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/07/23/maybe-i-should-just-drop-the-reformed-label-am-i-reformed-enough-for-you/#comment-1686
http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/07/23/maybe-i-should-just-drop-the-reformed-label-am-i-reformed-enough-for-you/#comment-1687
Apart from that, the post was SIMPLY MARVELOUS…though honestly, I wonder whether or not the questions posed would even make a difference—as for some, the answer would still be yes on their only being CALVINIST or ARMINIAN and whatever camp one belongs to present—and that their death wasn’t as meaningful as someone’s who’s views are different. In practical, look at the theologians we hold up from back in the day who’re long gone…….and see how many with differing views than you do you praise. How many Cessationist praise those hailing from Azusa Street/the works they did for the Kingdom in gifts of Prophecy/Healings? Or Charismatics hailing Cessationist Kats who gave bread/gifts of benevolence/generosity?
Will there be a part 2? And on the questions, do you think that perhaps some of the are “double-barraled” questions that a simple “yes” or “no” may not do?
I hope they are double-barraled! I hope it makes people really consider the “heresies” that plague our church today. Not in the Benny Hinn use of the word but in the Butcher Knife use of the word.
Alright,
This is great post! Now this leads to my question I have proposed around: What are the “Secondary Doctrines?” More importantly what does Scripture promote as the Primary Doctrines of our faith?
Phillip
1 Corinthians 15:
Brother Phillip,
How are you by the way? Sowen has been coming through showing some love and I appreciate your interaction. How are the seminars going? I see you are a Bauchum fan! I stuggle with his homeschooling stance (almost makes it mandatory) but other than that saw him in person a couple of years back preaching on the ressurection in Downtown Dallas (First Baptist Dallas) he is a beast!
Lionel,
It’s Stan, formerly from Theologica. I canceled my account there as I found the conversation less than edifying.
At any rate, I’ve added your new site to my blog roll.
Good post. I look forward to reading your future posts.
Hey Stan,
What happened at Theoligca? What is your blog?
Bro. Gabriel,
I’m working out a part 2 in my mind. Mainly depending on the feedback. I wasn’t just trying to provoke thought. I was seriously trying to reason out in my own mind if certain divisions were really Christ worthy. In other words, would Christ be proud of our divisions or weeping over them? Also, do these divisions arise out of a false view of the function of the church and it’s members? (probably the subject matter of the second post)
And as far as the questions themselves, it is definitely not a simple matter of yes or no. I think that’s the point. Whenever we divide from someone whom we consider to actually be a Christian, it should be with much grief. Even when someone ask me about leaving a church with many doctrinal problems, my answer is usually, “Stay and pray. Or leave and grieve.” It’s majorly cliche-ish, I know. But it’s my attempt to make a serious point. Division should never be such an easy manner that it requires no serious contemplation first. And unity itself requires similar care and reflection.
It’s the law of incremental progression… little by little by little there has been a progression away from the first century standards to now. Think about it! Someone has a disagreement about doctrine, they splinter and form a new progression which supports their belief. Now magnify that exponentially and you can quickly realize how things have gotten to the place they are today, little by little by little, further and further and further away from… ground 0!
With all that’s wrong with that which professes to represent the “Church”, God is omnipotent and more than capable of reaching those hungering and thirsting for righteousness. I came through the C.O.G.I.C. and as I look back, it was exactly what I needed at that time. Despite the inadequacies of the denomination, my hunger and thirst was for Christ! And as I matured in my understanding it was my hunger and thirst for truth that caused me to remove myself.
The interesting thing about truth, is that EVERYONE believes they have it. The Buddhist, the Hindu, the Mormon, the Islamics, the Christians and on and on. What ever belief system you belong to, it’s hard to see beyond that which you believe! But the Truth is not the Truth because we rightfully derived it through our hermeneutic studies. Truth is Truth because it’s always existed, and doesn’t have it’s origin in man! Jesus said I AM the WAY, the TRUTH!!!
So what is my point… take a good look at the world around us. As Believer’s in this Western Hemisphere we have WAY too many options. What will happen when those options aren’t available? In that time, whether I’m Calvinist, Arminian or Cessasionist to a degree won’t matter. The only thing that will matter is if I am what I’ve claimed to be! And when you realize that all we’ve got is each other… all the things debated and hashed out daily will be a non issue, for there will be no more gray lines!
Selah!
I Ain’t Nobody!
Me and DJ agree! Wow! Look what the Lord has done. You have finally conformed to the truth! My truth! LOL!!!! But seriously the greatest thing about heaven is that all of our extras will be sheered off and we will see Him for who He is! Praise God for that!
LOL… yur silly Lionel!
I Ain’t Nobody!
Lionel,
What happened at Theoligca?
I found that there were several heretics that were hogging the site. They were not teachable but rather wanted to espouse their views and occasionally in a mocking fashion toward the faith. And when I say heretics, I’m talking of those who deny the essentials such as the Trinity, virgin birth, etc…
It was bringing me down.
What is your blog?
http://prozacstan.blogspot.com
The title of my blog is just after sunrise from Mark 16:2. My stated theme is Theological and political observations of a Reformed Baptist Redneck. I am going to try to stay focused on theology. However, I will make brief observations of political news hopefully from a Biblical perspective.
thought provoking questions. Thank you for posting them.