Christian Radio says so!
Very quickly here. I was listening to Christian Talk Radio (which I actually stopped doing about year or so ago) because my CD player is broken and what is on the radio stations just, well lets say I don’t like it. Anway I was listening to:
1. Chuck Smith on the Q&A http://www.kdkr.org/ and someone called in and asked a question about 2 Thess 2. She asked if Obama was this man of Lawlessness that was going to bring American down because he is the “most liberal man I have ever seen”. So instead of rebuking this woman with gentleness Chuck Smith says “I am afraid of him also” referring to Obama. They went on to say how God judges nations by putting wicked men in leadership and Obama if he wins will be a sign of God’s judgement. This is despicable! Thanks Chuck Smith!
2. Next I turned because of frustration and went to 90.9. Again I hear the same type of foolishness from Jerry Johnson. He didn’t go as far as to call Obama the “man of lawlessness” or some equivalent. But he indeed attempted to persuade his listeners that Obama was a Christian man (rather this is active or passive) but somehow Bush was (I will get to this later).
3. Finally I was listening the other day to James Dobson (no link needed). I honestly believe this man only believes Republicans (who vote) will go to heaven. This is the most thoroughly convinced man that 1. America was built on Christian Values (tell that to my Great Great Grandparents, My grandmother under Jim Crow, and the slew of other ethnicities who have almost become extinct do to American Terrorism in the past). He also objects to Obama because he is a baby killer and the like.
Now understand this isn’t caricature this is what has been the defining tone of Evangelical Conservative Radio and because of this I am saddened! If anyone here believes an unnecessary war (that becomes more unnecessary as we go), violations to the Geneva convention (a slew of torture techniques are being implemented to get information) and to add to that the prison conditions of many who haven’t been found guilty of anything is Christan than we have some serious problems. Some very serious problems. I would include quotes from Bush that would get you kicked out of most churches but hey “he still a Christian”.
Whats even funnier is that those who support Obama and Christian thinks Bush is the devil in the flesh and those who oppose Obama (republicans) feel that Obama is the Antichrist. It is funny that we both pray to the same God, purchased by the same blood, read the same bible, and are sealed by the same Spirit, but come to issue and are so divided! I am not giving the black radio stations a past but most of them are not “Christian” they are not defined by the Gospel.
Here are my two cents. Vote for whoever you like but don’t slander, backbite, gossip, and pass along lies that are propagated by the media, for Christians this is when we have crossed the line. Especially the Antichrist stuff and God is judging us by electing Obama. Because truth be told there are some old school solid men/women of God who feel the same way about Bush!
Thanks for visiting my blog…
in regards to this post, thought you might find this opinion piece interesting:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20080626/cm_uc_crlelx/op_246500;_ylt=Au79DraH2D9CUB36ym56OUis0NUE
Brother I will pick apart Mr. Elders very generic and biased statements like a Undercover Democratic Agent at a Republican National Convention! This is very troubling:
“Compassion is not about making people dependent on government. Compassion is about encouraging personal responsibility, and getting people to understand that life is about making choices. Poverty does not cause crime. Crime causes poverty. Poverty does not cause a child to have a child. A child having a child causes poverty. Finishing high school is a choice. Not joining a gang is a choice. Not having a child until you have the maturity and the means to raise that child is a choice.”
I see Mr. Elder has never grown up in such areas where this is rampant. Let me give you an example. Not saying you agree or disagree but ask me what would you have done?
A boy grows up and at around age 8 his mother (no father around so it ain’t his fault) becomes a crack head. Now the rest of his family are high school drop outs, drug addicts and his grandmother ain’t much older than his mother. So after about a few months or so on crack, she starts to sale everything they have. She takes all of the money and buy more drugs. Now the addiction is so bad that she has given over to prostitution. But guess where she engaging in such illicit acts? That right in the only bedroom in the house while the boys turn the television up so they don’t hear all of the grunting. Each men walks out and zips up his pants with a smirk on their face. Having just used their mother as a ragdoll for $20 that is if she still hasn’t been used up! She abuses the boys, not to mention while she is on one of her fits she leaves the baby boy who happens to be 2 in the care of the 8 year old.
There is no food but the boy has to decide to stay at home and take care of his little brother or to go to school and eat. Well now the house has become a drug house. One of the men are fond of the 8 year old and says “hey little man I know you ain’t got nothing (a profane word could be inserted here) so do me a favor. Take this package around the corner for a nigga and then I give you $10-$15 dollars and get yall something to eat! So the little boy who hasn’t eaten in days decides to take him up on the offer. Yeah he knows whats in the bad and yeah he knows it wrong. But he has to feed his little brother and get him out to the diaper he has been in for the past few days.
Lets not forget that the social workers are underpaid and understaffed and the schools can’t care because the teachers are trying to keep their jobs and one less troubled kid may help them raise their scores so the school doesn’t shut down. The church across the street don’t care, because they don’t want to be bothered with dope heads who don’t want to help themselves and the suburband church (both white and black) could really care less about feeling the command to provide for the marginalized.
So these kids fly under the radar undetected for years. The boy can’t read or write, the momma by this time is the drug addict that is caricaturized in our famous crime shows and nobody has taken the time to teach the baby boy his ABC’s 123’s or any other educational process so he is light years behind other kids. So the little boy grows up and the babby brother grows up until Social Services finds out or the house is busted, or the kid gets caught peddling drugs. Lets not forget the baby is observing all of this. The older brother gets caught and he is thrown into juvenille with the rest of the criminals (you know those criminals have choices don’t they). He becomes a bit harder and his heart becomes more callous to society. The baby boy grows up and follows the pattern.
So tell me Alan or Mr. Elder what is a kid in that situation to do? Does poverty create crime or crime poverty? What about the two boys in that situation what would you do if you were that boy? You think this is a joke. This is normal in a lot of inner city areas. I get thoroughly pissed when someone tells me about crime, poverty and what choices these kids have that is crap bro! And guess what people stay in their safe little suburban homes driving their nice SUVs and do give a darn (I would say something else) about these kids. All the while we enjoy life and not only do we not look for opportunities to help we bury our heads in the sand when opportunites do arise. So the next time Mr. Elder sees one of these kids on television (or you, not knowing where you stand) just shake your head and say tisk, tisk, look at those poor criminals, they can’t ever get it right!
Whoa! I’m not advocating for his view - just pointing the article out.
I will say though that I am not at all on the “I’m a victim” bandwagon regardless of the circumstances. The sooner anyone, white, black, hispanic, purple, green, etc. realizes that they have a choice not to be a victim, the sooner they can commit their resources to getting out of whatever situation they find themselves in.
This isn’t about race but circumstance. I didn’t say you were, but then you come back and say you are by your last statement. So based off of the story above what is that victim to do? How can he “commit” his resources? What resources does he have exactly?
Lionel,
This may seem an alien thought in the US (when I see all the blog conversation on who to vote for)
But I heard a previous pastor of mine in the UK, say he would never tell anyone who to vote for.
Wouldn’t this save a whole heap of trouble …
With all the talk of ‘personal responsibility’ this could be one area in which it could be encouraged.
Colin
I agree 100% Colin. I also believe that the lesser of two evils is in the eye of the beholder. For some those are social justice issues for others that is “the war” on terror. For some it is healthcare for others it is pro-life. Some it is poverty others it is taxes! So I believe under the guidelines of scripture you have a choice to pick the best candidate YOU believe will do the best job. The bible gives us no such instructions regardless of how hard people try to convince you otherwise. But this is typical for people who are spoon fed by the religous right or the liberal left. Both have intentions that I feel to be out of the will of God. And some of the platforms for both parties is what God desires from the Church.
This is an area of freedom and it is nothing but modern day legalism to bind a Christian’s conscience either way and it is as I said despicable for any pastor to try to influence those who God has made him an overseer to lead to say otherwise.
So is Obama good for America or McCain or someone else we won’t find out until November. I might vote due to the fact many of my ancestors in the flesh fought for this freedom and I will do them a disservice by not honoring them with my vote.
Most of the crimes we think of are sin and sin comes as a result of our temptation springing forth from our desires that are unmet.
Poverty does not cause crime or sin, but certainly can increase the temptation to it.
Affluence, clearly, doesn’t prevent sin, though it may make one more susceptible to other sins, typically those more culturally acceptable.
Obama … Bush … they’re all politicians. If they don’t get corrupted in the process, the temptation to corruption is immense once in positions of authority.
Only Christ saves.
All these things are the reasons I have come to hate politics. If Jesus were walking our streets today I feel confident in saying that he wouldn’t want to be a part of either political party in this country.
I’m not even sure he would want to vote given the corruption in our political system.
The whole thing with the comments made by Mr. Elder and hist type really distress me. I find it repulsive when people who have absolutely no idea what it is like to be in another persons shoes presumes to give lectures on how wrong they are.
Lastly, whether someone be a Republican, Democrat, Liberal, or Conservative isn’t it funny how they all create God in their own image. Funny thing is God says he created us all in his own image. Considering all our differences that is a statement that can leave you scratching your head.
Brothers,
The gospel of self-reliance is no gospel at all. Whether it is taught in the context of the natural or spiritual life, such teaching only leads man to be in a vicious cycle of failure. We all need grace in every area of our lives. Look at the example Lionel gave and tell me that the grace of God isn’t the only answer! Larry Elder has been pandering to moralism for a long time. (Remember when he presided over “Moral Court”?) This type of mess only produces men full of pride in their accomplishments. But I’d rather stand with Paul and say “by God’s grace, I am what I am!”!
Mark wrote: “Lastly, whether someone be a Republican, Democrat, Liberal, or Conservative isn’t it funny how they all create God in their own image.”
Exactly!
It’s that “God is most concerned with that which most concerns me” mindset that is not only destructive, but is idolatry.
Mark Noll has written a book about the Civil War period called The Civil War as a Theological Crisis. In it, he discusses how one of the casualties of that time was the way people handled the Scriptures in our country, using them instead for political purposes and imposing our wills on the text. I’m ashamed to say very little has changed since, and our culture has very little understanding of what a Christian is to be because we have chosen rather to make pacts with Gibeonites (cf. Josh. 9). We have chosen to let politics define what “sanctity of life” is instead of the Scriptures. We have chosen to let politics define what “human rights” are instead of the Scriptures. We have failed to be a prophetic voice to the culture and have chosen instead every 2-4 years to let the political pimping continue. We need to be much more careful for the sake of the Gospel.
“Put not your trust in princes,
in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.
When his breath departs, he returns to the earth;
on that very day his plans perish.
“Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob,
whose hope is in the LORD his God” (Psalm 146:3-5)
[Please read the rest of the psalm when you get a chance.]
Too many christians mask their selfishness and perverted personal pride, under the language of conservatism. Many of them act as if conservatism is as sacred a value to possess, as their spiritual walk with God.
There are many relevant facets of conservatism, and self-reliance, but there are also many false claims, selfishness, and linear and simplistic thinking, contained within the proponents of such ideology.
This is why politically, it’s good to be a centrist, or somewhat centered.
I, like most black folks, are conservative on most social issues, and liberal on bread and butter issues.
1. I don’t know why you are comparing people who slander Obama to people who slander Bush. NEWSFLASH: Bush is not running for office this year. Obama has been in favor of abortion and partial birth abortion which are two things that have been killing off the black community for years. His opponent, McCain (not Bush), has had a die hard pro life record for the last thirty years. There is a difference. Even Alveda King, Dr. Martin Luther King’s niece, said that this is the reason she will not vote for Obama. So, sorry, it’s not just evangeical talk radio hosts.
2. This so called unnecessary war is very necessary. We had terrorist attacks on our country all through the nineties, but have not had one since we went to war - or didn’t you know? I personally have been to Iraq and Afghanistan (with the 82nd Airborne Division) and can tell you from first hand experience that we are catching real terrorists over there and we are winning over there. Victory is in our grasp, if only we can be a country of real men with strong backbones.
I consider the kings of Israel, some of whom were acceptable to God, some of whom were not, all of whom were treacherous at some point. What’s the difference, for example, between Saul and David?
Also, the Biblical admonition is to submit to the governing authorities. This came to us from Paul during the bloody rule of Nero. No small thing to consider.
Both sides of the political spectrum in the United States spout arguments that have been repeated over and over. None of them new. I’ll vote my conscience, but realize that no matter who is in office, only God can solve any of our societal ills.
1400 AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE ABORTED EVERY DAY, and 40 MILLION PEOPLE FROM ALL BACKGROUNDS IN THE US DURING THE LAST 30 OR SO YEARS. That’s nothing short of genocide. I’m glad that we spilt more blood to free our own American people in the Civil War than any other war, but I’m grieved that some of us aren’t willing to lift their voting finger against a man who believes that a baby can be killed after he’s born based on (euphemism here) “a woman’s right to choose.” That’s what Barack Obama believes, period, and that’s why everyone who names the name of Christ should vote against him. Who cares what people on the radio do or don’t say when murder’s the issue.
John P,
You may be a drive-by poster. That is fine but let me ask you a few questions.
1. What exactly did Bush accomplish in 8 years as it relates to Roe vs Wade?
2. What exactly did Bush accomplish as it relates the “sanctity of marriage”?
3. Why did Bush not only not overturn Roe vs Wade but also made “the abortion pill” more accessible?
4. So why do you believe that McCain (who has flitrted with pro-choice and seems to only change due to his political position not a moral one) is worthy of my vote? There is an alternative below is the link
http://www.baldwin08.com/
I can’t address the subject of whether Bush made the abortion pill more accessible or not, and I’m not aware of anything he did other than talk about the sanctity of marriage. But, then again, I’m not here to defend him. I do know, though, that he’s put some judges on the Supreme Court that would like to overturn Roe v. Wade.
I have to admit that McCain didn’t get my vote in the primaries, but I’m not willing to make the judgment that the only reason he’s generally against abortion is because of political expediency. Maybe, but I don’t know his heart and I can’t make a political decision on this basis. But, I do know that either he or Barack Obama will be president. There’s no hope for any other candidate.
The next president will probably have the opportunity to apppoint 1 or 2 more justices. John McCain will likely appoint ones that would like to overturn Roe v. Wade, and this will go a long way toward stopping the genocide. You heard the town hall at Saddleback–Barack Obama will appoint judges who will certainly defend “a woman’s right to choose.” This should make it an easy decision.
I haven’t heard of Baldwin before. I will look at the website, but like I mentioned, either McCain or Obama will be president. With the stakes so high regarding the pro-life issue, I couldn’t think of voting for anyone other than McCain. If he doesn’t win and 2 more abortion judges get on the court, Roe v. Wade automatically has an extension of its life and the 1400 African-Americans every day and 40 million from all backgrounds don’t.
A Planned Parenthood butchery is on my way to work. I drive by it every day. I can’t stand what they do there, and I see the young girls thorugh the window. Please reconsider. I beg you.
John P-
That is the issue that has made up my mind for me and the only reason I cannot “waste” a vote on Baldwin although I agree with him much more than I agree with Mcain.
As you mentioned, the president cannot overturn Roe vs Wade only the Supreme court can. So in essence I am voting for potential Supreme Court justices.
John P and Hutch,
Please do not feel under attack by my questions or statements. The issue of voting is something that I am wrestling through right now so it is vitally important that you see these as honest.
When I here Christians speak about the Supreme Court, I get the sense that they are hoping for the death/retirement of one of the more liberal judges so that that judge can be replaced by a more conservative one. But I’ve never heard a Christian say that he/she desires/prays for the conversion of any one of the judges on the court. Why is that?
Although we may be “judging” his heart to say that McCain is only pro-life for political expediency but you both have basically stated that your intention to vote for him is one of political expediency. If a third-party candidate’s stance is completely compatible with the issues that affect your conscience, then how would voting for him/her be a wasted vote? At least before God? This is an honest question.
Do either of you gentleman believe that a Christian is morally obligated to participate in politics at all? What if a Christian doesn’t vote at all, is he/she in sin?
Thanks for your help on this. I have more questions but I’ll wait for your responses to these.
Bro. Lawrence D.-
We should indeed pray for all of those who are in positions of authority, especially for their salvation.
You asked: Although we may be “judging” his heart to say that McCain is only pro-life for political expediency but you both have basically stated that your intention to vote for him is one of political expediency. If a third-party candidate’s stance is completely compatible with the issues that affect your conscience, then how would voting for him/her be a wasted vote? At least before God? This is an honest question.
I probably used the wrong word by saying waste. No, when someone votes their conscience it is not a wasted vote. Third party candidates who do not have enough support to win always take votes away from one candidate and help another. I just know that Obama will not appoint pro life Supreme Court justices if/when given the chance. Again, the president cannot just declare Roe vs wade null and void; it must be overturned by the Supreme Court. I vote my conscience when I vote against the possibility of pro-death Supreme Court justices being appointed. Others vote their conscience differently.
You asked: Do either of you gentleman believe that a Christian is morally obligated to participate in politics at all? What if a Christian doesn’t vote at all, is he/she in sin?
I personally do not believe that we are obligated to vote, but merely have the privilege to vote. When you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I have voted, abstained from voting, voted republican, voted third party and voted for a few local democrats.
When I vote I am almost always voting against something more than for something. I feel like I am voting for the individual I feel with mess the country up the least.
I believe…
Most politicians are liars and have spin doctors and talking heads that do the same.
Most politicians are not interested in serving the people in righteousness but rather are interested in money, position and power.
Government and politics are a necessary evil and a consequence of the fallen condition.
That I am an alien and stranger sojourning in a land that is not my own-I ultimately serve a different kingdom.
I love America and feel privileged to be a citizen, but that America is not the Kingdom of God and is as much a part of the world system as any other country.
Bro. Hutch,
Thanks for responding. You really gave me some things to consider.
I have been to “Christian” websites that are 100% against political involvement, who make it a sin to vote. (Though, one website in particular has a entire page devoted to telling you that a certain candidate is an abomination)
I have also been to those who are 100% for political involvement, who make it a sin not to vote. (Though what they mean is that it’s a sin not to vote Republican, no matter what!)
Because of a condition that I discovered recently that I suffer from, called “Lazy Extremism”, I’ve decided to do more than just “side with a side”.
Thanks Bros. Lionel, Hutch, and Lawrence D.
I wouldn’t say that it’s generally sin not to vote, or a sin to vote for a third-party candidate who upholds truth. Then again, in some circumstances it might be. Even if in my heart I thought it was in a particular instance and under certain circumstances, I don’t know how strongly I would say this publicly. I’d have to think about it. It’s interesting that for some time the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America didn’t allow their members to vote at all.
I voted for Tom McClintock in the California governor’s race in 2000 simply because I couldn’t think of voting for abortionists. I hate abortion so much, and see McCain as the only one who will be able to do anything about it by appointing judges. I have to go to work now, and I’ll pass by the baby butchery on Beach Blvd. I pray that God would change the hearts of the current justices and those who work at this detestable place. In Jesus’ name, Amen.