As of recently I have been wrestling through the way we do “church” here in the West and the way the scriptures say the gathering looked like. I have been on a blog lately and what is funny I agree with everything that I have read on there thus far. As a matter of fact, a couple of years ago I was looking at the house church model and began collecting some information on it. I became more engaged when Tyris joined Christ Fellowship of Kansas City which is a house church movement under a Reformed Baptist umbrella.
I agree with the elements of house churches but not their emphasis on houses. So that is where I would part with them, but on everything else I agree. Let me be clear. I am not against meeting in houses but I wouldn’t say you are going against the New Testament practice if you were to meet in a specific building for any amount of time. However I would say once people became numbers and not people you have went too far. So what is this post about? Lets start with some verses found in Acts 13:
13 Now Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia. And John left them and returned to Jerusalem, 14 but they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it.” 16 So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said:………
If you were to walk into a synagogue what you would find the rulers (always plural, always plural) of the synagogue reading from the scriptures, giving an exhortation and then something would happen. They would open the floor for other “men” in the synagogue to bring a word of encouragement. Now, tell me how that differs from today. Not only is there one person who controls the teaching of the local gathering, that person is the “primary” teacher for a given period of time. So you will have one men who is a gifted orator “preach” for 20-30 years if he is really good and maybe 30-40 if he were young enough when he started. The problem is their is this obscure section in 1 Corinthians 14 that seems to state otherwise in the early gathering:
26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
It is funny people usually skip to verse 27 to debate about tongues versus no tongues but will ignore the fact that each of the men could bring a lesson (women were excluded from such exhortations as far as I can find verse 33b-35) though I am struggling through what prophecy would have looked like as laid out in 1 Corinthians 11. So here are the questions.
1. Who is qualified to bring a word of exhortation based on scripture, not our seminaries.
2. Is a teaching pastor biblical or scriptual?
3. If all men were able to bring a word of exhortation why do we violate this freedom and reduce the Gifts of the Spirit given to men to auxillary gatherings and not the “main” gathering?
4. Finally why have we reduced the gift of teaching to a pulpit of the greek orator style (I can give you a hint it didn’t start until about over 150 years after Paul’s death) and punt the biblical emphasis on the priesthood of believers?
Lionel,
Thank you for linking to my blog, and thank you for sending me links to your blog. I’ll answer your questions quickly – at least, how I would answer them:
1) Every brother or sister – whoever is indwelled by the Holy Spirit – is qualified to speak when the church meets. I would qualify this only by saying that their motivation should be love and the edification of the church.
2) A pastor/shepherd (elder) should teach. But, then again, all believers should teach. Teaching is not the sole or primary responsibility of elders (pastors).
3) This is a huge historical question. I think that as the church became more institutionalized, the responsibilities which belong to all believers slowly began to become the sole responsibilities of religious professionals. There were probably good reasons for this – i.e. heresy. That doesn’t mean that the response to the heresy was the correct response.
4) I think my answer to #3 is probably my answer for this question as well.
Very good questions.
-Alan
Alan,
Can you expound on this? Where would that place you in the current Comp/Egal argument
“1) Every brother or sister – whoever is indwelled by the Holy Spirit – is qualified to speak when the church meets. I would qualify this only by saying that their motivation should be love and the edification of the church.”
So could a woman teach men?
Lionel,
Every act of speaking is not an act of teaching. Regardless of how we interpret 1 Cor 14:34-35, 1 Cor 11 seems to indicate that women should be allowed to pray and prophesy.
Personally, I interpret 1 Cor 14:34-35 as dealing with “weighing” or “judging” prophecies. Some have suggested other interpretations that I could also live with – such as women should not dispute with their husbands publicly, but should discuss this with their husbands at home.
The verb “be silent” in 1 Cor 14:34-35 always has a context. For example, the person who desires to speak in tongues is told to “be silent” if there is no interpreter. This does not call for complete silence but only in the context of speaking in tongues. Similarly, the person prophesying is told to “be silent” if another stands to prophesy. This does not call for complete silence but only in the context of the other prophet speaking. In the same say, women are told to “be silent”. It seems that this should also have a context. The context is not as clear in 1 Cor 14:34-35. I believe the most likely context is judging prophesy. So, I would say that women should “be silent” in the context of judging prophesy but not necessarily in the other contexts.
As to your questions of women teaching men… most people agree that women teach men all the time. I learn from my wife constantly. The question is “In what context should women teach men, and in what context should women not teach men?” To be honest, I’m still struggling with this question. It is usually answered in terms of “authority”, since Paul says in 1 Timothy that he does not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. However, Scripture never allows a man to exercise authority over another man. So, I’m still struggling with this question.
Like I said, though, there are many ways that women can speak that are not speaking. Even in the context of 1 Cor 12-14, Paul lists words of knowledge, words of wisdom, tongues, prophesy, prayers, etc.
-Alan
oops… the first line of my last paragraph should have read: “Like I said, though, there are many ways that women can speak that are not teaching.”
Sorry!
-Alan
Lionel, I have been introduced to this site by of reformed brother. I am excited to see that someone else is having the same questions as I, on why we do the things in the modern day church. I would like to point out another overlooked vs. in 1 Cor. 14. It is the second part of vs. 37 “he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.” Now doesn’t this play into the context of vs’s 26-37? And if so then were does the modern day denominations come about saying we do it this way etc. . Thank You sir for a great site………Steve
Hey SOwen,
I am also excited to see like minded brothers. I have been reading some stuff for the last couple of years mostly articles but mostly over the last year due to Tyris’ fellowship. It is hard to deprogram. I actually left my church and came back because they weren’t a “professional” organization and the Lord tore me apart. I wanted deep expository preaching, nice reformed doctrine, with great programs and outreach and I wanted this from my “church” man how selfish of me! Well praise God that through much work of the Spirit that He convicted me and I had to repent to my leadership for my selfishness. Now I love the organic atmosphere. Just a bunch of believers coming together to love on one another. Though there is some disruption due to “reorganization”
)
BTW, SOwen where are u?
Lionel,
I’m very glad to see you look past what is done traditionally, and take it back to Scripture to question it. It is in the spirit of what the Reformers were all about. And usually when people question things done traditionally, they have an agenda (and usually a liberal one). But you seem to be searching for the truth of the Scriptures with no agenda but that of the Scriptures. I just wanted to tell you how great that is.
I wish I had more to add to the actual topic. All I can say, is I have struggled with the role of women in the teaching area, but I cannot get past Paul’s relating the reason back to the garden of Eden, therefore making null the argument that is was just cultural. I can’t just pick and choose what I want to obey. So that’s where I’m at on that…but keep it goin’ brother.
Seeing as the issue of the way we do church is quite a hot topic, can I recommend the guys at New Testament Reformation Foundation? They are very much into the house church concept and have a lot of good resources. Here’s the link: http://www.ntrf.org/
Lionel , I am a reformed evangelist in Conway Arkansas. I used to live in Gainesville Texas until 04 when the Lord pulled my family and I out to Arkansas. I have been apart of a fellowship who introduced me to the reformed doctrine of which I had been taught before, but was in the Charismatic movement. I was raised Roman Catholic until 95. Anyway I have always questioned the things of the church and it wasn’t until this year that I have been really looking into the scripture and having my questions answered. Along with my brother in Christ Phillip who is here in Conway. I just recently got into the twenty first century and got back on line after a hiadious. So now I am finding others who have been asking the same questions about church. Well there you go Brother my limited biography. As with the scriptures say that Jesus did many more things than what is written so goe my life story to. LoL All to the glory of the most high God…………….Steve