This is a rebuttal of a previous post which I can’t find (LOL). However my previous position was yes, but I have changed my mind (it may change back who knows). However after talking with a co-worker and walking back through 2 Corinthians 8-9 I decided to post this. So let me say why.
1. All giving under the New Covenant is free will
This has to be key. Many times I hear that tithing is for today and I won’t entertain that one. The other one that is pretty prominent is “tithing is the training wheels of giving”. That depends on who you talk to. We all understand that the tithe was a tax because Israel was under a Theocracy. We can in no way expect the same. There percentage was around 30-33% just as we are under a Democracy we too have taxes at about the same rate. These dollars were used to upkeep the temple, offer sacrifices, and to have a storehouse. There are other reasons in which I won’t get to. However it is clear that tithing wasn’t the training wheels but the taxing wheels of Israel.
In the NT starting in Acts we see free will giving even to the point of people selling their goods and laying them at the feet of the apostles (Acts 4-5). This money was given to help the poor Christians and was given to the apostles. We really don’t see giving being addressed again until 2 Corinthians which will be the verses I use for this post.
2. The giving in 2 Corinthians was not a continual deal but a temporary fund raiser in which the Corinthians swore to do on their own accord.
This is huge to understand. Many people use this to defend Lord’s Day and why the church meets on Sunday but I ain’t going to go there with them. I will say this though it is more likely used to refute tithing (which the Corinthians wouldn’t know what that was) and to defend giving consistently and proportionately. Both are wrong. Let me explain:
8 I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. 10 And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it. 11 So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have. 12 For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. 13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness 14 your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. 15 As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”
You see if we look at verse 10-11 we see Paul telling them to come through on a promise they made one year prior to him writing the letter. So this chapter has nothing to do with giving to the local church whatsoever and everything to do with them fulfilling a vow they made previously. It is funny how many pastors use this verse in order to coerce people into regular giving. This was a special collection that was taken up by Paul to take to the poor saints in Jerusalem who were suffering a famine and persecution. We also see that this vow motivated the poor saints at Macedonia (2 Corinthians 9) to give sacrificially which is explained in verses 1-7 in 2 Corinthians 8. So by no means is this a defense for frequent giving but should be used in an exposition of sacrificial fund raising for some specific purposes. So now that we understand that giving is 100% FREEWILL giving let me continue with my next point.
3. There is no biblical support about giving money to your local church for it to be an independent storehouse.
I have searched the new testament as much as I can and can’t find any support for this position. Maybe it is inferred in relation to paying teaching elders or providing for the poor or providing for the widows or something along those lines but there is no clear imperative for such a command. This can be expected but I can’t find it commanded anywhere. Nor can you find that the Elders are somehow in control of the money. We see the Apostles in control in Acts 5 however this is description and not prescription. Many times I hear “your first obligation is to your local fellowship, then you can give elsewhere”. The next time we should ask “where is this in the bible”. As I read the epistles and the general Epistles there is no case of this. The only option is back in 2 Cor 8-9 and I have explained that this was a fundraiser for Jerusalem support not a case for giving to your local church. That again leads to my next point which is actually a question.
4. Where then shall I give?
I think this is a tough and sensitive issue. Most Pastors would stone me for what I am about to say. The answer is anywhere. Now I say that with great care because many local fellowships depend on giving levels to support budgets and so forth and without consistent frequent giving this could be a recipe for disaster. I will talk more about this is my next point. But lets take for example a believer has a co-worker who has just lost a child and had no life insurance. Should the Chrisitian take his/her money to the church or help contribute there. Now many would say both but just like the local church the Christian has a “budget” to live on also. So whats the answer? The bible doesn’t say. Now if you have a church in which you could go to the elders and let them know the situation and funds could be raised then this becomes an easy problem, but what if you don’t? I really think the answer is prayer. You must discern the situation. If this co-worker is a non-believer you are just as much contributing to the Great Commission as if you gave to your local church.
What if the Christian finds himself in a church that is not involved in local or world-wide missions? Could a portion of their giving been given to the Missionary directly or through an agency? Most people would say give at least 10% to your church and then find a way to give over and beyond to the missionary. Once again you don’t find this you find the exact opposite. Both the Macedonians and the Corinthians gave to support Paul and the Jerusalem saints not to help build a youth wing or put flat screens up so people don’t bring their bibles to church anymore. This leads to my final point.
5. What about the local church?
Once again this is sensitive but if we are going to be genuine about our assessment of Christianity and the current trends of “churches” today we must ask this question. As I drive up the street what I see is monuments or museums. There is more money caught up in infrastructure that it makes me sick to my stomach some times. We have churches that have their own youth wings the sizes of elementary schools. I see churches sitting on 10 plus acres and they look like shopping malls all the while using the local giving to fund such lavish buildings. Some cost 15-20 million dollars and to make it sad if you want to use a portion of it you still must pay. Are we serious?
These same churches have mission weeks in which they allow the missionaries to raise funds which are over and beyond the local giving all the while sitting in auditoriums. These same churches have their member giving “sacrificially” while they have millions of dollars in surplus cash (and we laugh at Creflo and Jakes lets get real). There is no way I could stand up and tell a member to forgo e their vacation while we are cashing checks and putting in bank accounts that well funded. How is that the member is to give sacrificially but the church doesn’t? How is that churches bring Crown in to tell members to live debt free while the church takes on debt to build youth wings and buy land to put the church building on all the while planning on asking the members to give more to help fund this ambition. This is hypocrisy my friends at its finest.
Many of our inner cities are being destroyed by poverty and we build 20-30 million dollar church buildings far away in the suburbs. Nicely equipped with screens, worship leaders, orchestra’s, plush seating, state of the art architecture and surpluses in the high hundreds of thousands if not millions. I am always blown away. While Barna does his study on church members who don’t give how about doing a study on how much of the giving is caught up in million dollar church buildings. All which are going to be destroyed when Christ returns anyway.
So in closing read the title of the post which is a question and ask yourselves. Who should I be giving to? Is it a church that already has millions of dollars, the missionary who has forsaken all, the neighbor who just lost his child or spouse, the homeless ministry striving to live out the one anothers or your loved one who doesn’t know Christ but is in great need of some green backs? The bible doesn’t really say prescriptively but I must say that HD screens, cruises, plush seating, and mult-million dollar facilities doesn’t seem to be the top of my list. To add to that who should know? Maybe the Lord alone and you can add the IRS just in case they are a charitable organization.
Lionel, interesting (and very controversial) subject!!! My wife and I attended a fairly diverse church in Harrisburg, PA that was non-denominational and Arminian in nature. It started with about 8 people in a Bible study and grew in a couple of years to over 1000 members. The pastor was AA and the funny thing is the church started in the city. There first building was a closed down drug store in a strip mall in the not so good area of the city. It was actually adjoined to a state liquor store. As the congregation grew out of the building they had a “financial stewardship” campaign so that they could raise money to purchase bigger facilities to accomodate the growing membership. This “campaign” amounted to bringing in some guy that none of us ever heard of but was known for being able to teach pastors how to fleece, I’m sorry, did I say that?, I mean encourage their congregants to give sacrificailly for 3 years. This guy was saying that we should have faith that God will keep our cars running good as new even if we don’t change the oil so that we could use the money we’d normally spend on an oil change to give to the “building fund”. This was the point that I started to get suspicious of what the goals of the church really were. Long story short, they raised lots of money quickly and moved that church into the suburbs on 33 acres of historic farmland and built a monumental building. That was just phase I. They have a vision from the Lord for 3 phases and the 3rd phase, when completed, will be sick!!! But guess what happened? First of all, a lot of elderly people left the church. They were city folk who relied on public transportation to get to church and could not make the trek into suburbia. The pastor also wanted to be paid with a love offering instead of a salary because the suburbs had “rich white people instead of poor blacks”. Every Sunday there was so much hype and hoopla over the 10 minutes of the service devoted to the giving of our tithes and offerings. The church also wanted to know how much you grossed yearly so that when you became a member they could hold you accountable to God’s plan for tithing in the church. If you didn’t tithe, you couldn’t get counselling or be a part of ministry. We were STRONGLY encouraged to give extremely well to the pastor’s love offering so that he could be rewarded for his service to God and to us. It was so distastefull and offensive. It didn’t sit well with my spirit. I started a study to find out answers about the subject of giving and came to a lot of the same conclusions you did. The pastor bought a mansion in the suburbs (to entertain visiting preachers from out of town) and bought new high end vehicles for his family (God doesn’t want you driving a Chevy-He wants you to drive the best!). He did this undercover, without telling the church. He came out a few weeks later and told everyone but said he was afraid that people would not understand and think he was living high on the hog. Well, duhhhh!!!! He’s getting richer and fatter and living large while the people who are paying for it (according to “biblical principles”) are living off of food stamps and using public transportation cause they couldn’t afford even a used car!!! In fairness, he did start preaching that we all could do the same if we would just have enough faith. He would say that the way to get out of debt is to give more, not less (to the church, that is) because God would reward your sacrifice and faith and help you get out of debt and give us houses and cars we couldn’t afford. He wasn’t WoF but he does sound like he was influenced to some degree. His congregation is still growing but it is through a revolving door. New people are drawn in by the church’s charisma but a lot of the ‘ol heads are gone. I voiced my opinion that I felt giving should be something that God compels us to do. I wanted to help a poor family from being in serious trouble and was told not to give my money to the family but to give it to the church. Then the church would appropriate if, and how much to give to the family. It didn’t feel right in my spirit but I was encouraged to obey my leaders, so I did. The family didn’t get anything and went through tremendous difficulty. All of that being said, I think giving is a personal thing between a believer and God. He guides us where to give and how much. I don’t limit myself to giving to local churches because a lot of them use the money for vanity in building huge monuments to themselves and letting the rest of the world go to hell in handbasket!!! Our family sponsors a beautiful little girl in the Philippines and we help out in our city as we see needs. I would much rather do that than give all of my money to a church so that I can brag that I go to that big beautiful campus in the suburbs!! Giving should not be under compulsion. If it is then I doubt God is glorified. God loves a cheerful giver! I do realize that some of our giving should probably go to our local congregation to help pay the pastor’s salaray and help with the maintenance of church property. But I also think that the leadership of the church should be Godly men with Godly desires to stay humble to the gospel versus serving vanity and viewing money and monuments and high end cars as God rewarding us for our faithfulness in giving. Good post…can’t wait to here the differing views and opinions from others! God bless!!!
BTW, I don’t see anything wrong with people wanting to tithe or giving to their local Body. My point was that I feel, according to what I’ve read, that tithing had it’s purpose. We no longer live under or for that purpose. Therefore, we should not be beat over the head by sermons that we must live for this purpose. I feel that we should be cheerful givers and that no one should be strong-armed into giving. Once again, God can not and is not glorified by someone being forced to give. Christians should pray to be the best possible stewards of the money God entrusts to us. We should pray that we would use our money to glorify Him. We should ask Him to lead us in our decisions as to where and how much He would have us give. I wouldn’t want to offend someone who feels they should tithe to their local church. But I would caution that if you feel that way then how did you come to that conclusion? Is it that reference about robbing God in Malachi? If so, do you give with a cheerful heart or are you still being compelled to give under the strong arm of the law that doesn’t even apply to us? If you want to tithe because you feel that is how God would have you spend His money for His glorification then I say “Go for it. Praise God in your faithfulness!” But if I feel that God would have me sometimes give to other areas of need to serve and minister to “the least of these” then I feel perfectly free in Christ to do so.
Hey Scott you said:
“I wanted to help a poor family from being in serious trouble and was told not to give my money to the family but to give it to the church. Then the church would appropriate if, and how much to give to the family. It didn’t feel right in my spirit but I was encouraged to obey my leaders, so I did.”
I don’t want to pick on my Charismatic brothers but this is quite frequent. But what really gets me is this is also implied in more conservative churches also. Even Reformed circles (I guess we are Rome’s stepchildren) have this idea of bring it here and then “we” will give it as “we” see fit. I read a missionary journal and they agreed that your giving starts with your local church first then goes out. I am not saying this is right or wrong what I am saying is it isn’t biblical. No scripture to support such a statment.
You also said:
“BTW, I don’t see anything wrong with people wanting to tithe or giving to their local Body. My point was that I feel, according to what I’ve read, that tithing had it’s purpose. We no longer live under or for that purpose. Therefore, we should not be beat over the head by sermons that we must live for this purpose. ”
I agree with this also. I wouldn’t even discourage anyone from tithing like many of the anti-tithers do. I am not against tithing I am arguing that 2 Cor 8-9 doesn’t provide a foundation for consistent, habitual sacrificial giving it was a fundraiser in which the Corinthians agreed to do and they were not asked initially they were only asked because they made a promise and Paul shared this with other churches so he was telling them to follow through on their vow.
BTW Scott I tried to return your email but it kicked it back.
Your family is beautiful brother and I am grateful that you were gracious enough to send pictures. I was not offended at all and there are only a couple of people on this planet that can really get under my skin and they know who they are. Keep holding it down brother as one famous singer said “It doesn’t matter if your black or white”. LOL
I really appreciated your blog post. it was good. I am sincerely glad that you have searched the truth in the scriptures and have found what God really says about stewardship and tithing.
-Jared
Hey Lionel, that church wasn’t charismatic, it just had a power hungry, CEO-mentality pastor. They were against anything Charismatic or Pentecostal. It was told to us that we didn’t know what the best way God would have us use our money so we should just give it to the church and let them decide since they were much more qualified and closer to God than us common folk. Anyhow, I sense that I’m still bitter and that disturbs me. We left that church about 4 years ago and I still struggle with being able to forgive and move on. There are days I want to strangle the guy when I see him on TV pushing the same ‘ol game on other people. I wish I would be released from the bitter feelings I have toward that church and towards the pastor, in particular.
BTW, I sent you an email from my home PC because that’s where we store our pix. I am on the road a lot for my job and have a laptop with internet. Sometimes people tell me that they try to send me something to my home but it gets kicked back. Maybe my spam filter is set too strong. If you ever want or need to correspond with me directly send anything to scottie3371@comcast.net
Thx, brother and have a great day!
Good considerations, Lionel. I followed this post and the previous one on tithing. Anecdotally, my church doesn’t do pledges or formal giving commitments. The deacons wisely consider a reasonable budget and trust God to meet it. We always give over our budget. We don’t have fundraising drives for budget or building projects. The only fundraising we do is for missions and once a quarter we take up a special offering for benevolence. We have a diverse economic cross-section, and I’m sure some of our wealthier members make sure any needs are taken care of. I know of people who have had special financial needs that have had covert donations to help them. Additionally, we have a portion of the budget set aside for occasional programmatic outreach efforts to people in need in town. Individuals also work with people in these areas. The church has moved once before we joined because it outgrew the location, but it stayed next to town in walking distance to several diverse communities in town. All that to say this: if you trust God and earnestly desire to minister in his name, He’ll provide the means.
Another consideration I have draws a parallel to Biblical justice. We know the “eye for an eye” system. We may consider this to be a harsh saying, but you may already know that this was a system of justice that applied a bit of limited grace. In other words, we are tempted to demand justice or retaliation that exceeds the extent of the crime. An “eye for and eye” says that if someone has plucked one of your eyes out, you can’t pluck both of his out, plus cut off his fingers to boot. if someone steals $100 from you, you don’t punish them by cutting off their hands or fining them $10,000. Tithing is similar in that for the agrarian culture at the time, people would make exorbitant offerings to appease their harvest god or god of fertility or whatever god. They would even sacrifice their children. All this because they wanted their gods to bless them. %10 off the top AFTER God has already given it to you is chump change by comparison. Out of gratitude and the joy of knowing and wanting to share my savior, I should have a desire to give what God has blessed me with beyond a measly %10.