Here was a response to my post on Comedy. Let me know what you think. Lawerence sent this to me through email and he hit some points I didn’t think of and some perspectives that I my narrow mind didn’t search for:
Bro. Lionel,The piece began very well because you intimated that the line was thin. The problem becomes when we mark out the crossing of those thin lines for others. What happens is that what God has told US not to participate in, we automatically think that it applies to everyone. You said that you have wrestled with this before so I don’t think that that necessarily applies to you. I could sense your heart towards the improper treatment of God in entertainment venues and the participation of Christians in Him being taking lightly. However, I would advise caution in this matter. But that’s just general. Now to be more specific as to the article itself:I have never seen this movie “First Sunday”. I, like you, figured that it would be the typical “church satire” film with no substance. I also knew that somehow the unregenerate robbers were going to end up teaching the moral lesson to a group of people who are supposed to belong to God. That’s the typical Hollywood way. The unsaved demonstrating more righteousness than the saved. Now as to whether or not a Christian should find this funny. That’s a tough one. I’m not so pious as to be able to find the humor in just about everything. If I were to see this film and there was a scene that was funny, I would indeed laugh. I love to laugh. But the main question is, “Why am I laughing?” and “What is my laughter communicating to the unregenerate?”. I think most unsaved people who see this movie, already believe that this is exactly what the church is like. In many cases, especially in our community, this is true. So, for the most part, I may be laughing to keep from crying. Or I may be laughing because I don’t recognize how sad this situation is and that this is what we as Christians have communicated to the world. Also can I as an informed Christian set aside the satire, since I know the truth, and just laugh at the humor of it all? I know that it doesn’t represent biblical Christianity. I know that this is not a true picture of the Body of Christ. But I definitely don’t find the other imitations (cults, Word of Faither’s, Oneness Pentecostals, etc.) funny at all. So is there a contradiction there?I have also never seen this ”Talladega Nights” film. I find Will Farrell annoying rather than funny. (Except in the Austin Power movies he was hilarious.) As to his “prayer”, I would say that it was indicative of someone who was more irreligious than irreverent. Granted, there is a disrespectful element to the “prayer” but it is at least given in the context of utter ignorance and not utter disregard for God’s Holiness. But again, this is from a character in the film who is not regenerate. He is in no way meant to instruct anyone in theology. If some adult were influenced by this film to view God that way, I would venture to say that that person is already lost completely. I would , however, be worried about children who watch this film who wouldn’t recognize comedic hyperbole and would take it as serious information. So now, could a Christian find this scene or others like it funny? Maybe. Again, if they recognize it as not being meant to put forth any lesson on theology, they may be able to just find the humor in it all. Perhaps your mind did went into those other considerations when you saw this. Maybe it was an over reaction. Maybe it was a justified reaction. But I don’t believe that it was meant to be legislated and others demeaned as Christians if they did find it funny. But there’s nothing wrong with you raising the question. Nothing at all.Now when it comes to Tyler Perry and “Madea”, I thought that you could have brought up a lot worse examples than you did. This particular example may be another case of a character being irreligious and not irreverent. Also, I think we again have to give some people credit that they can differentiate between what is meant to be taken seriously and what is not. For me “Madea” would be solely entertainment, not instruction in righteousness. I didn’t see in this particular example how she was blaspheming God’s name. Perhaps you had the other “worse” examples in mind and put it all together. If she was blaspheming by under valuing God’s word, then I agree. If it was in feeling that God takes too long, then I think we would all have to do some serious repenting.This line truly is thin. The fact is that I’m not so sure that we wouldn’t be getting into hair splitting over which sins to allow ourselves to be entertained by and which ones to refuse. You mentioned blaspheming God’s name. What about fornication, adultery, lying, cursing, or murder? Trust me bro, if laughing at or being entertain by the sins that others commit is itself sin, then I would venture to say that we can’t watch t.v. or movies at all. No film or television show that we watch could have a villain. And all the people in the film would have to be perfect saints. I remember Paul Washer going on and on about how sick a “John Wayne” film made him. What? I don’t even like westerns but even his explanation as to why, didn’t resonate with me at all. I felt he was overreacting in puritanism. We have to ask God for discernment in those things that He shows us as to whether or not they are just for us.You are right to say that we need to read our bibles more. That way whatever we watch or hear we will be able to do so with our eyes and ears open and saturated with the Word of God. We will be able to know more fully what we should and should not enjoy. I didn’t get excited at the worldly celebrities’ involvement in ”The Bible Experience” or BET’s “Celebration of Gospel”, or American Idol having “Gospel Music Night”, for the very same reasons you mentioned. I believe everyone should stay in their own arena and not be allowed to make money nor gain popularity by stamping “Christian” on their product. I do hope that God does send out His word through the “Bible Experience” though. I haven’t heard it but if they actually read the scriptures, then it’s still the Word of God and it’s still “quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword.”!As to the rest I just have a few nits to pick:1) I don’t think that you see any comedy routines in the bible at all, so that point was lost as a “red herring”. Or is it a straw-man? I forget. LOL!!! (Of course there is that great scene with Elijah and the prophets of Baal, that was comedy!)2) When you say that “Pastor” is the highest office in the church, how do you define highest? Structurally?3) The Bible is actually God’s Word given to us. I wouldn’t call it “our word”, even though I know what you were trying to convey. This is actually why I had to back away from commenting. I began to defend God’s Word as if it was indeed mine which meant I began to defend it in a manner that diminished it.So Bro. Lionel, I appreciate you raising the issue and I hope that others pay closer attention now to their entertainment choices. I also appreciate you asking for my input.Be blessed,Bro. Lawrence D.
As it relates to the church organism the Elder is the highest office. The Elders have the right to make decisions for the Church for the Glory of God and as a member of a local fellowship submission (I am not saying you can’t agree) should be your response.
I’m still wondering about Ephesians 5:1-4, for if it makes clear that obscenity, foolish talk, or coarse joking isn’t to be among those who are God’s chosen people, then it wouldn’t seem consistent for any of us to act as if there isn’t a “black & white” line to follow. And if we’re going to call out other issues based in the Word of God, it doesn’t make logical sense for us to be consistent, difficult as that may be.
That is of course unless the definitons for foolish joking and those things listed in the apostolic command need to be defined clearly or mean something different than what we commonly accept.
There was one story I remember where someone had a Christian friend who said he is a “closet” Sex and the City watcher. And there are many other believers who are the same with other shows like “Family Guy”, “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”, “The REAL WORLD”, and other shows where there’s a constant barrage of corrupt speech/mess. But when questions are raised, the main thing that comes up is “Well, don’t judge…Scripture isn’t clear on that……I can handle it.”
IMHO, whenever I hear of the response “we might as well throw watch t.v. or movies at all”, I wonder if the response is incomplete. For there the command in Scripture seemed very specific….and even if it meant that nearly all of the media intake we bring in would be cut out, why is that seen as radical? As there are various saints throughout the world who’ve done so and seem to be doing just fine since their concern was being consistent with the Word as opposed to making the Word Fit a desire/cultural mindset they already had.
http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001258.cfm
Forgiveness if I’m coming off the wrong way. It really is sincere wrestling, as I’ve been realizing how defensive I am when it comes to the issue of media/comedy that I laugh at but seems inconsistent with what the Bible says.
If we get so frustrated at an issue—such as pimpery in the pulpit and how many twist Scripture/aren’t faithful to dividing it correctly like II Timothy 2:15–and I’m quick to point out with Scripture….and yet when it comes to media and a verse that seems to give no uncertain terms what is proper for believers and I say “Well, how can it really mean that? That’d mean I have to get rid of ALOT!!!”, that makes me pause to see if I’m hypocritical.
I think it’d be error to say ALL MEDIA’s off limits in what we laugh at…..and sites like “PluggedIn” do a good job of helping folks have discernement on what to watch before you watch it:
‘http://www.pluggedinonline.com/
…..and yes, some things are just plain funny. Madea, indeed, is a trip….but does that justify it?
Moreover, this comes to my mind:
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things.” (Phil. 4:8).
As much as I like to watch action movies like Terminator/Aliens, do they fit the bill on this verse? Or other T.V shows? That may be extreme but the command seems to require an extreme response.
You raise some good questions Gabriel this statement stood out to me:
“For there the command in Scripture seemed very specific….and even if it meant that nearly all of the media intake we bring in would be cut out, why is that seen as radical? As there are various saints throughout the world who’ve done so and seem to be doing just fine since their concern was being consistent with the Word as opposed to making the Word Fit a desire/cultural mindset they already had.”
I have been recommended worst movies but I didn’t want to take it that route.
Hey, Brah!
Could you clarify your last statement, when you said this:
“I have been recommended worst movies but I didn’t want to take it that route.”
Pray I don’t come off the wrong way in things, for I’m sincerly wrestling over issues…..with books like Joshua Harris’s “Sex isn’t the Problem (Lust Is)” and some of his sermons on Media being really intriguing to me (to listen, go to http://www.covlife.org and look for “Sermon Archive”, with the series by Harris entitled “PURITY”)
Just wanna be consistent with Scripture…..and something else which was brought to my attention:
Philippians 4:8-10
My friend really nailed it/checked me on the issue recently when I was getting excited at this movie/video game due to the amount of action/violence that was in it. In my mind, I wasn’t denying Christ with it. But then he brought up the verse and said “From one brother to another, is what you’re watching in line with lovely, just or what the Word says?”. That makes me think of how often we supply ourselves with things which’re profane as opposed to noble or what’s in line with God’s divine standard of Holiness (Hebrews 12:14, I Peter 1:13-24)…….
If I’m to think on what’s pure (i.e morally clean/undefiled), then what sense is there in my ingesting that which is contrary to it? That’d seem to be counter-productive, as it’s common sense that what you invest in is what’ll influence your thought process.
I have been recommeded movies like the Wedding Crashers, the 40 year old Virgin and other such movies. I have been invited to see movies such as Saw and others and I declined.
Dude… You gotta check the SAW movies out. Loved em all.