Okay kinfolk I usually try to avoid addressing false teachers because there isn’t enough memory in the world to address them all; however, when I saw this I said “get the heck out of here”!!!!!!!!!! This dude done flipped his wig in the worst of ways. If you don’t know who this is, his name is Fred K.C Price and is an infamous wolf! His track record makes him a top villan. He has devoured many sheep and have left nothing but hoofs and clumps of wool behind.
Mr. Price has now been promoted to “The Apostle of Faith”. Now if this doesn’t upset you and make you want to scream at the top of your lungs I don’t know what will. This is a sham and it is a ridicule of the faith. Here is an excerpt of his promotion (if that is what you call it), pay close attention to the reference to the Apostle Paul’s ministry:
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (which he had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy Scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name; (Romans 1: 1-5 KJV). The Call of Apostleship of Dr. Frederick K. C. Price mirrors that of Apostle Paul in that the Fruit of his ministry bears witness that This Call is From God.
You can find that here. Now if anyone is familiar to Paul’s to ministry we can clearly see how Paul was called SPECIFICALLY by God. Just in case you don’t know here it is:
9:1 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Jesus spoke directly to Paul and I wonder….. well….. how exactly did God confirm Fast Freddy? I am appalled by such a statement and you should be also. These men are one upping each other every day it seems like. One man calls himself a Master Prophet (what the what LOL). Whats next? Only time will tell.
Look if God has given you an allotment to watch over please talk to them about such foolishness. We can’t leave people in the dark. We can’t stick our heads in the sand and say “it will all go away” these churches are growing and people are getting duped by the millions. They are investing their souls into the hands of these wovles and we are letting them by saying “we don’t want to debate” that is exactly what we want to do. Just think if you saw someone walking into a burning building holding a newborn baby would you sit casually by saying “oh, I don’t want to be forceful”? Way too many people don’t understand the deadly venom these men relase into their veins and most won’t know if we don’t say anything.
Uh….an apostle?
So what does this new apostleship offer to Price? What does it allow Price to offer others for the Kingdom?
I will hold back from my keyboard for now….
Mark
I assume from his divine promotion that we are not allowed to question anything he says.
Scary thought, indeed.
Pure foolishness at its finest. You are right, we would be blogging forever if we kept up with the latest heretic. This is just insane man. I am in sunny california and am going to visit Pastor John e Coleman and I am sure PJ will take me by Fast freddies church today. I might become a crusader and take him out. Pray for me LOL.
Excellent Post! I enjoyed it.
I would compliment it by saying that I truly believe that Mr. Price is blinded by his own pride and has no idea of the dangerous assertions that he makes! But as you stated, he is not alone…
Yogi
Guys,
If God communicated with Paul, why is it impossible for God to communicate with Fred Price? Paul was once a Bounty Hunter of Christians, Fast Freddy is a Pastor that preaches the (supposedly) Infallible Scriptures of the Holy Bible. I think he feels he is really doing Gods work. God Bless Fred Price.
(Come on Guys, what’s a debate w/o opposition?)
This is a great blog! I’m glad someone is finally “outing” these supposedly Christian “superheroes” for what they truly are..the quintessential false prophets that the Master warned us about. They are leading itching ear “Christians” happily and joyfully down the wide path of destruction.
I ask again how far will they go to one up the next spiritual giant? It is like a competition on who can have the most spiritual title. It is ridiculous.
Hey Chuck,
It isn’t impossible it just ain’t happen! LOL!!!!! Remeber what I said bro. Many use the bible for personal gain and Fast Freddy is the epitome of such a thing.
Quote taken from Apostle of Faith site;
“While his service as Pastor and Teacher is extremely well documented and noted, there is another spiritual office in which Dr. Price has quietly, dutifully, and without fanfare operated, the office of Apostle.
As a result, Crenshaw Christian Center and the Fellowship of Inner-City Word of Faith Ministries believe that Dr. Price’s entrance into the twilight years of his life and ministry make the perfect time and opportunity to publicly acknowledge his service as an Apostle in and to the Body of Christ.”
So the affirmation comes at the “twilight” of ones ministry? And the affirmation is “affirmed” by his church and ministries?
“The Call of Apostleship of Dr. Frederick K. C. Price mirrors that of Apostle Paul in that the Fruit of his ministry bears witness that This Call is From God.”
Wow… what a bold statement!!!
Does worldly success equate to success in God’s Kingdom? Do we really think that God is impressed with numbers? Is He impressed with degrees of knowledge, documents that express the time we’ve expended in obtaining truth? We understand biblically, we understand doctrinally, we understand technically, we understand the Greek and Hebrew… therefore… we understand truthfully!!! And since we understand truthfully, there is NO way we could possibly be wrong!
This is the mentality of many in Christendom. The desire really isn’t for Truth, it’s simply to be right! And though God’s Word is infallible, we believe that make us infallible. And why not… look at what we’ve invested in understanding His Word!
I look at the world and all the things done in the “Name of Jesus Christ” and it saddens me. Because it is to the world that Christendom has made Christ appear schizophrenic! We blow up abortion clinics in “His” name, form polygamous sects in “His” name, preach health and wealth in “His” name, murder in “His” name… in the worlds eye, Jesus has simply become a god among many gods!
I Ain’t Nobody!
Well well well…it would appear that our little pimp has found a new way to promote himself. I guess with his new apostleship, he can binding decisions on doctrine and write us a little Scripture…NOT!!! It is disgusting that people like him are still around, yet it is a sad sign of the times that we live in
hi lionel,
there are many things that make me so upset that i want to scream from the top of my lungs but fred price’s “alleged apostleship” aint one of them. i think it’s just par for the course.
to be frank, i don’t see why this is such a big deal. when i first read about it, i think i yawned. if i should be outraged and i’m not- what does this say about me?
Hey Mrs. Maverick here is a qoute from Calvin about 500 years ago:
“”A faithful dog barks at the first sound of a thief and risks his own life to protect his master’s life and his family-shall the church be plundered by the thieving of the ungodly, shall God’s majesty be stamped under foot, shall Christ be robbed of his own kingdom, while we watch and say nothing?”(Calvin BLW p 19)”
Let me know what you think about the qoute and then we can discuss the frustration.
ok, lionel, i’ll answer your question first. luther is saying that in the same way a vigilant dog will bark to warn the members of his household of an intruder or any other danger, so should the Church of God stand vigilant to warn the other members of the household of faith when there is any imminent danger. Christians should not sit idly by while the Lord’s name is mocked and the enemies of Christ take advantage of the flock. this, i believe, is the gist of what he is saying- more or less.
but again, what has this got to do with fred being bestowed with the title of apostle? i still don’t see the cause for alarm. it won’t change anything that’s been going on for the last 30 or more years.
please tell me what it is about this that has you so frustrated. i’m obviously missing your point.
The reason why is that your answer shouldn’t be the heart of a Christian. Let me explain. What if tabloids were misrepresenting your Mom and ever year there was an annual addition that called your mom something she wasn’t (whatever is vile to you). Would you becom apethetic towards it or would you fight to clear your mothers name? Regardless of how many years they have re-released the material.
The same goes here. I don’t care how long people misrepresent our Lord and our faith and yes I can’t catch them all but that doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t speak up as much as possible. You see God’s name is a stake here. We are His Covenant people and everything we cling to is because of His name. If He is misrepresented so are we. We are to speak bodly against those who blaspheme the name of YAHWEH and we can’t become apethetic no matter how well False Teachers are prospering. So 20 years from now when the next clown comes around calling Himself “an apostle” (which is the highest office one can posses) I will speak out bodly and become frustrated again.
So my frustration is because my Sovereign God is being misrepresented by a false prophet and I can’t sit by and let this happen with no conviction to speak up.
lionel, first, if i appear to be apathetic then i earnestly ask that you make that a matter of prayer on my behalf. i have and will take a bold stand when it comes to certain issues but again, fred’s “apostleship” isn’t one of them.
i certainly know that God is sovereign and because He is such, His plans will never be thwarted by man regardless to how high they may exalt themselves. the reason why i’m not moved by these guys anymore is because i finally understand that there will always be false teachers among us and there will always be people deliriously willing to flock to them desiring to have their ears tickled. that’s what i meant by it’s par for the course.
sure, we ought to speak out against anything false, be passionate about it, righteously indignant if you will, but at the end of the day- it is what it is. if i understand the doctrine of calvinism correctly, all that happens is decreed by God- people’s blindness, and people’s illumination, so why waste energy becoming frustrated by the shenanigans of false teachers? God is still on the throne, the ever lasting gospel is still going forth, and souls are repenting from their sins and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.
as far as quotes go, i prefer this one better: John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
there’s not a false teacher around who can prevent the elect from coming- therefore i don’t believe that fred, joel, oprah or WHOEVER has any power to take captive anyone who is decreed unto eternal life. Jesus did it for us and will yet continue to draw His own to Himself.
as long as the true message of the gospel continues to go forth, people will turn from darkness into His marvelous light. i never said i won’t continue to proclaim the good news. i’m just saying i’m not moved by flaky freddy’s foolishness.
Angela you said:
“sure, we ought to speak out against anything false, be passionate about it, righteously indignant if you will, but at the end of the day- it is what it is. if i understand the doctrine of calvinism correctly, all that happens is decreed by God- people’s blindness, and people’s illumination, so why waste energy becoming frustrated by the shenanigans of false teachers? God is still on the throne, the ever lasting gospel is still going forth, and souls are repenting from their sins and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation”
That is actually quite opposite of what Calvinist (who are 99.9% Reformed). That is the doctrine of Hyper Calvinist which we don’t hold to. We believe that God is Sovereign over all things but we don’t believe that we do nothing about it and that it is what it is. We still evangelize, feed the poor and preach the Gospel. All the while understanding that it is God “who gives the increase”. As it relates to waisting energy lets look at Titus and see what Paul says in the 1st Chapter:
“10 For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. 11 They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. 12 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.”
There are 2 things that we are called to do?
1. Silence them
2. Rebuke the sharply
You must understand that this isn’t a mistake but willful deception and many will be decieved with him. God will save whom He will save but the deception of the elect is still highly probable. This has no bearing on their salvation but their fruitfullness to the Kingdom. There may be quite a bit of people who are regenerate in Price’s church but they are decived non the less. It is our job to explain and to expose such deception and call him out on his wickedness. His motive of making himself and apostle is to deceive more and more people by equating himself with Paul and others this will give him a wider door to walk into people homes and spew his wicked doctrine of prosperity. Hope this explains it better.
I live in LA and I encounter many of the confused people that attend this church. What is sad about this is that so many of our people are so ignorant of the basics of the faith to avoid the host of such false teaching. I pray for a revival in our area that will combat the wave of demonic doctrines overwhelming our people.
Mr. K.C Spice is Founder and Pastor of Crenshaw Christian Center in Los Angeles, California, Dr. Frederick K.C. Spice earned his Bachelors of Biblical Studies, Master of Divinity, Doctor of Ministry, and Doctor of Philosophy in Religious Studies degrees all through Friends International Christian University. In addition to founding and pastoring Crenshaw Christian Center, and a flock of more than 16,000, Dr. Spice is the author of in excess of a dozen books on faith, the Holy Spirit, divine healing, and prosperity.
So please explain, how do you silence Mr. K.C Spice? He’s not a member of your congregation so you can’t excommunicate him. You can rebuke him but he could care less about what you think of him, again 16,000 members and growing, ever hear of this saying, “The squeaky wheel gets the oil” because the squeaky wheel’s making so much noise it gets the most attention.
Mr. Spice is a squeaky wheel, all of them false teacher’s with their jesus are squeaky wheels. The reason is, they need noise to draw attention to their nonsense. The noise you’re making just draws attention to Mr. Spice and his gang of THEFTS, their predators that eat the dead, the weak and the dieing, (let the dead bury the dead).
If you really want to see a miracle Preach the gospel of life, the gospel of Jesus Christ to these dead and dieing men and woman held captive in K.C Spice’s city of thefts, and watch the dead rise. Now that’s a genuine, holy cow, right out of the bible miracle. The gospel, that’s the wheel that should get all the attention.
To his Glory, and his alone.
lionel,
i didn’t realize there were different sects of calvinists, now i know. i guess by adding “hyper” as a prefix, it makes a difference.
brother, i’m not trying to be difficult here but can you please explain what you mean by saying”the deception of the elect is still highly probable. This has no bearing on their salvation but their fruitfullness to the Kingdom.”
i’m not sure what you’re talking about because it doesn’t make sense to me.
as far as the Scriptures go, of course i don’t ever feel it’s a waste of energy to heed them and i wasn’t advocating that. i said it’s a waste of energy to get frustrated over something you can’t do anything about. how you feel about false teachers won’t stop their proliferation.
as far as the two points you made from the Scriptures- i’d like to know how you propose to silence them, and how do you propose to rebuke fred price? i doubt that these people even care what bloggers are saying about them so please tell me how this is to be done.
ps. What about the pope who claims to be a Christian as well? he is the biggest false teacher of them all! i believe his flock is about a billion strong. are you equally outraged? i ask this in sincerity.
1. The elect can be can deceived in believing false doctrine. For example, many elect believe you must speak in tongues to be saved. Others believe that God wants to heal everybody but needs their faith. Others believe you must wear certain clothing or that you can’t wear make up or that you can only listen to certain music, or you can only have sex in certain positions, or that God wants them to be rich. I don’t think this has any bearing on their salvation but their doctrine is definitely jacked up.
2. I am saying we can do something by exposing false teaching when it goes too far. Many people have come to different blogs and figured out they have been doing this all wrong. So we are only a venue the Holy Spirit is the one who moves.
3. Silence then by exposing their fallacy. This doesn’t mean they will shut up or repent and then we mark them as false teachers. Sometimes the marking wasn’t for the false teacher but for the believer who would fall victim to the false teachers. The Judaizers didn’t stop, the gnostics didn’t stop, the false prophets didn’t stop in the Old Testament nor the New Testament and the Pharisees who rejected Christ didn’t stop, but that doesn’t mean we don’t continue to push and expose when necessary. Paul wasn’t concerned with the false teachers (he already called them anethema) he was concerned with the Galatians though and I only pray that someone from Crenshaw would come across the site and be challenged to think otherwise.
4. Depends as it relates to the Pope. I don’t think Catholicism as a whole is a false religion. Some may stronger disagree. I think they have some bad teaching But I am sure that quite a few are genuine Christians just as quite a few baptists are genuine Christians. As long as they are trusting in Chirst they are good to go.
Finally as it relates to the Pope most of the people that this site is aimed towards willl never consider Catholicism so I don’t talk about the Pope much. Most of the people will be followers of people like Price and his offshoots. I don’t pick on Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, or Muslims much either. If someone comes along Tyris or I will address it accordingly.
PS: there are hyper charismatics, pentecostals, Arminians (typically they are of the Pelegian sect) and other sorts. Hyper Calvinist is one who wouldn’t evangelize at all and for the most part we don’t mess with those fellas much.
Why would people who vist your site not consider Catholicism? According to you, I could be “Genuine” and be Catholic?
——————————————————————————-
The Catholic Church teaches:
Justification is a transformation of the soul in which original sin is removed and sanctifying grace infused [1987-1995]
The Bible teaches:
Justification is an act of God in which He declares a sinner to be righteous in His sight, having forgiven his sins and imputed to him God’s own righteousness (Romans 3:21-4:8)
The Catholic Church teaches:
Initial justification is by means of baptism [1262-1274]
The Bible teaches
Justification is by faith alone (Romans 3:28)
The Catholic Church teaches:
Adults must prepare for justification through faith and good works [1247-1249].
The Bible teaches:
God justifies ungodly sinners who believe (Romans 4:5). Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause (Ephesians 2:8-10).
The Catholic Church teaches:
The justified are in themselves beautiful and holy in God’s sight [1992, 1999-2000, 2024].
The Bible teaches: The justified are in Christ holy and blameless before God (Ephesians 1:1-14).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010].
The Bible teaches: Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874].
The Bible teaches: Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8,9).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Catholics guilty of mortal sin are justified again through the sacrament of penance [980, 1446].
The Bible teaches:
There is no second justification. Those whom God justifies He also will glorify (Romans 8:30).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Salvation from the eternal consequences of sin is a lifelong process [161-162, 1254-1255].
The Bible teaches: Salvation from the eternal consequences of sin is an instantaneous and secure act of God coinciding with justification (Romans 5:9).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002].
The Bible teaches: Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Faith is belief in God and the firm acceptance of all that the Church proposes for belief [181-182, 1814].
The Bible teaches:
Saving faith is the entrusting of oneself to Christ as Lord and Savior (Romans 10:8-17)
The Catholic Church teaches:
11. Sanctifying grace is a quality of the soul, a supernatural disposition that perfects the soul [1999-2000].
The Bible teaches:
Grace is the undeserved favor of God (Ephesians 1:7,8).
The Catholic Church teaches:
The sacraments are necessary channels for the continual infusion of grace. They bestow grace in virtue of the rite performed [1127-1129].
The Bible teaches:
The child of God is the constant object of the Father’s grace (Romans 5:1,2)
The Catholic Church teaches:
Grace is merited by good works [2010,2027].
The Bible teaches:
Grace is a free gift (Romans 11:6).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Venial sins do not incur eternal punishment [1855, 1863].
The Bible teaches:
Every sin is punishable by eternal death (Romans 6:23)
The Catholic Church teaches:
Serious sins must be confessed to a priest [1456-1457].
The Bible teaches: Sin is to be confessed directly to God (Ezra 10:11).
The Catholic Church teaches:
The priest forgives sin as a judge [1442,1461].
The Bible teaches:
No one can forgive sin, but God alone (Mark 2:7).
The Catholic Church teaches:
When the guilt of sin is forgiven, temporal punishment remains [1472-1473].
The Bible teaches:
When God forgives sin, He completely forgives (Colossians 2:13; Isaiah 43:25).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Acts of penance make satisfaction for the temporal punishment of sin [1434, 1459 - 1460].
The Bible teaches:
Jesus made perfect satisfaction for all sins (1 John 2:1,2).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473].
The Bible teaches: Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood (Revelation 1:5).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and cleanse the soul [1030-1031].
The Bible teaches: Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Poor souls suffering in purgatory can be helped by those alive on earth offering up prayers, good works, and the sacrifice of the Mass [1032, 1371, 1479].
The Bible teaches: Those who sleep in Christ need no help. To be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8).
The Catholic Church teaches:
No one can know if he will attain to eternal life [1036, 2005].
The Bible teaches:
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God. (1 John 5:13).
The Catholic Church teaches:
Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]
The Bible teaches:
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23).
The Catholic Church teaches:
The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846].
The Bible teaches: There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
so with all that said, please define what is the biblical criteria for “GENUINE Christian”
Please use scripture only,
Regarding this discussion, this is something which may help:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/d01a.html
I agree with Lionel, that the false teachings common to Roman Catholicism are not what defines BEING CATHOLIC…..no more than all the false teachings with PROTESTANTISM define being a PROSTESTANT.
Something interesting I recently discovered from a friend—The term catholic (Greek katholikos, “universal,” from katholou, “in general”) was first used in the letter of St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans (about ad110)..and The term was later used by Clement of Alexandria in his Stromata (Miscellanies) (who was apparently in the Bible too, Phil 4:3).
Though of course I’m not endorsing Roman Catholicism as something to go after.
lionel,
i am leaving off from the discussion about how we believe we ought to view fred’s apostleship and will just peacefully agree to disagree with you.
but one thing puzzles me. do you believe that that the pope (the self-called vicar of Christ, his SO CALLED “holiness”) is a Christian? the roman catholic institution has more false doctrine than all of the wofers put together (and they deceive more people too with their false Christ)
but you know what, with all the various doctrines out there, it stands to reason that none of us are 100% correct in all that we believe. so i suppose the pope is good to go.
Never said the Pope was a Christian. I think not especially if he holds to what Catholicism teaches as a whole. What I said is I am sure there are many Catholics who are Christians, just like I believe there are a lot of people who go to Creflo’s church, Jakes church, Price’s church and White’s church. If they believe in the Christ of the bible and His work on the cross and His subsequent ressurection from the dead, that is the Gospel. If any of these people from any of these camps adds something to the Gospel, rather that is Mary, communion, baptism or tongues they would MOST LIKELY be disqualified.
I know some Catholics who are Christians and they enjoy the structure of Corporate Worship there are many Catholic apologists out there also who don’t necessarily hold to all Rome teaches. I know many people who go to the Potter’s House being here in Dallas who are believers and don’t hold to a name it claim it theology. It really depends you have to take every believer individually and not put them all in the same bucket. Many are misled sheep not goats. And sheep are sheep regardless of their ignorance, I too was one until the Grace of God snatched me from the hands of hyper pentecostalism and WOF teaching. I was a genuine but confused believer then I am genuine LESS confused believer today.
We must be very careful not to lump people together. Once you talk to them (which many of us don’t want to do) we can find out if they believe in the Gospel. But that is what evangelism is for right?
now that is something i can agree with without reservation. we must communicate with people to find out where they stand instead of being hasty to condemn them all as being guilty by association.
i hate when everyone is painted with the same broad brush. i agree there are genuine believers in all denominations even in the wof camps. i was part of a ministry for 10 years where a lot of false teaching went on regularly. i was in Christ but as a babe didn’t discern the errors then as i can now.
I’m seeing all the accusations of Dr. Price being a false teacher. Can anyone share a few specific points of the doctrine that he teaches that are false.
Dr. Price has been operating in apostleship and or bishop for years. Many church leaders have come from Crenshaw that Dr.Price serves as the oversite pastor/mentor.
So please explain the falsehood-thanks
Hey Bob,
Here is a link
http://www.forgottenword.org/price.html
Now I am going to ask you to be honest. You are going to refute this and once you do others will respond to show you the grave error of Mr. Price. Now if we do that from scripture will you denounce him as a teacher from God? Please be honest because if not there is no use of proceeding because it will become quarelsome and I don’t do that any more. I pray that you would examine the text apart from any biases but I am afraid that this is usually not the case at all friend.
Keep it up Lionel good stuff on this blog,
Fellow dallasite!
Great site!
You may appreciate this site: http://www.justinpeters.org... Justin speaks out on this teaching and reveals the metaphysical roots of the WoF movement…
If you go to this site and click on “demo,” you can see a brief presentation of an overview of his seminar given at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. It is incredible!
Justin spoke at my church and comes highly recommended by my pastor, Dr. John MacArthur.
God bless you!
You stone throwers, I want to give you counsel from wisdom…
(The Saducees, ore than two thousand years ago, were trying to stop some real apostles from expanding the name of Jesus and not worried about their wealth.)
Acts 5
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.
29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
33When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
34Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
40And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
42And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
Let’s not be confused with the wealth of the new apostles, which we all are, and your fear of losing your post. FKCP will never be more than you think he is. Let us now argue about Christ in your life.
LeDOUX
What exactly are you saying?
I’m just curious. Does anyone here personally know the man of whom you speak about? If not, then how much do you know of him? Is all that you know of him things that you’ve heard from others, or information that you heard sitting right underneath him in a class or sermon? My grandfather did not request this. As a matter of fact my grandfather never requests any honor to be bestowed upon him. People, Pastors, Ministries and Universities have decided amongst themselves that they would honor this man in the various ways that they have already done. Did you think he requested the title of Dr. which comes as an Honorary Doctorate of Divinity? I don’t know the details of why he was bestowed that honor. I haven’t bothered to ask. My guess would be that in order to get a genuine PhD (in addition to having so many units and prerequisites, including a masters and bachelors degree) you have to write a dissertation based on extensive study and that which you right would or could be the basis of what you would or could teach. Well I know my grandfather and he is a researcher and a student of history, in addition to being a spirited filled minister and teacher who, via the Holy Spirit, is able to rightly divide the Word of Truth aka the Bible. Now is he the only one? Of course not. But is he a leader and great shepard? Absolutely. He has taught hundreds of lessons and almost all of them took thorough preparation. I don’t know if any of you watched the Race, Religion and Racism series on TV but that is vintage Dr. Price: detailed, accurate references, and consistent review, which many view negatively as redundant. Of course my grandfather’s response is the reason he repeats is because people still haven’t gotten it yet. And what do you if you don’t know a telephone number or vocabulary word or anything you want to remember? You review it, repeat it, go over it and/or put it before you until it is not only embedded in your mind but you are also able to speak it without hesitation. Anyways, i always find it interesting to google my grandfather and see what the world has to say about him. It’s fun, because I’m here, so very close to him and interesting to read what those who know only what the hear or read about him from others or may have only heard a portion of a teaching, usually out of context or just have a different belief system than him. It truly is interesting. Saddening sometimes because some of it is hurtful, negative gossip but most of the time it is entertaining. Anyways, it would be difficult for you, me or anyone to count the number of people that have come to Christ and/or have had their lives changed for the better as a result of the work and ministry done by my grandfather. I’ve always taken for granted who (I’m now finding out for myself) he was and is and now cannot wait to see who he will be. And trust me, all this pul-pit pimping stuff, it’s just a matter of what doctrine you believe in and everyone believes in the true doctrine. Just ask any Presbyterian, or Baptist, or Catholic or Lutheran, or Pentecostal, Non-denominational etc. It ultimately boils down to what is it YOU believe and what sits right with your spirit and mind. That’s what you should go by and if you get that kind of peace by saying that my grandfather, the man that has requested that the board of directors pay him a salary that they feel he is worth relative to the nature and scope of his work and importance to the ministry, the man that then takes that same salary and gives 40% back into the Body of Christ OFF THE TOP, the same man of whose wife is still active in the ministry but has given ALL of her salary back to the church and works (NOT RETIRED) at age 74 for free, the same man who if you tried and payed the most money you could for the best detective in the world you still couldn’t dig up any dirt on the man except that he is related to someone who has had an issue, then you go right ahead. Who am I to stop you. My flesh implores you to continue for entertainment purposes, but since I am not my flesh, my spirit does the opposite and begs you to stop because speaking down on a man of God cannot look good on your record in the Book of Life, if in fact you believe in such a thing. Good Day. P.S. I invite any of you if you are in town to join us Friday night, July 25th, at 7pm for the Pubic Affirmation of my grandfather as an Apostle of Faith. He has been doing this work already, for a very long time and humbly receives the title, but it won’t change much for him because again, he’s already been doing the work. But anyway. Enough said. You all be good.
I agree with Alan, it’s easy to set back and critique someone we don’t personally know. Most of the comments on this post is based on assumptions and opinions of thought not facts. I personally use to be a member of Fred Price church before he became famous. This man was instrumental in the salvation of thousands and maybe millions of people. Most of the black churches in Los Angeles are auxillaries of Dr. Price’s ministry, if not directly indirectly. Many people owe their salvation to the grace of God given to this man. So when we blast someone for something we disagree with, we need to make sure we address the teachings and not the teacher. To label someone a false phophet or a false-teacher is dangerous ground if were wrong. Jesus said, when they persecute you, they do it unto me! Without getting into definitions, if DR. Price is called of God as an Apostle (not after the order of the twelve), but an Apostle according to Ephesian 4:11 which where the churches first “missionaries,” then most of you would be committing the same sin as Paul and the Pharisies.
I agree there are many false phophets and teachers today, but most of them aren’t the men receiving all the press and attention. Most of the issues in the church today is the lack of knowledge. We have all this word, but are spiritually blind. The same critierion used to crucify Jesus is what we use today to identify who’s of God and who’s not, (the law) oh… I mean the Word! Jesus, said if you can’t believe the words I speak, at least believe my works…! Look at the works of these men and you will easily see what work looks like your daddy’s work and what work is the devils. That’s if of coarse you can reconize the works of God! I may not agree with every word Dr. Price speaks, but without him I would not be here today! 20 years ago when I was hooked on crack, I had three things that got me through, Fred’s tapes on faith, my bible and the Holy Spirit! Say what you must, but we will see when all the smoke clears, who’s on God’s side! Take away his ministry and millions would be lost not knowing Christ! I was told, that this is the work of God, “That men believe on Jesus,” who cares what we call each other - Did not the Pharises kill Jesus because of what other’s called him! One last thing Jesus said, “first pull the beam out of your eye, so you can see clear enough to pull the mote out of your brother’s eye.” I assumed all of you have taking care of your beams…I’m still working on mine!
Hey Alan,
1. I don’t personally know Satan, Jim Jones, Joseph Smith nor Farrakhan. Doesn’t mean I can’t call their teachings false and their self-appointment to Apostle even falser (is that a word)?
2. We are not judging Mr. Price as a man but as a false teacher of the prosperity persuasion. He may be a great man and given your concern and response he must be.
3. Actually he is a bad leader and a bad shepherd as it relates to the Gospel. Maybe he leads in other areas well but the Gospel isn’t his forte.
4. What makes you assume he is a “man of God”? Furthermore where does the bible even mention anything about a man of God?
5. I am glad he gives money back. Now what about the Rolls Royce? The House? The land? and everything else? How about not receiving such lavish gifts from the “church”?
Thanks for you response but I gracefully disagree with you..
Alan, Alan, Alan,
1. I am not judging Mr. Price. I am concered with his false prosperity teaching that is plaguing the church. He propogates this at every hand.
2. Why exactly do you believe he is a man of god?
3. Actually most of the false teachers and prophets receive a bunch of the press attention. They are all over the media, they own the biggest houses, the nicest cars, they have the most ridiculous salaries and they affiliate with the same type (each kind reproduces after its own) and Mr. Price qualifies.
4. I have sin my brother, but propogating bolonga doctrine is not acceptable my friend. It undermines the gospel.
Lionel,
the answers you are looking for lie in the fourth sentence of Alan’s post..
What is that exactly djenk?
that Mr. Price seems to be Alan’s grandfather and that might make him just a lil biased in his opinion
Oh yeah I saw that. Thanks brother.
I am all too familiar with Fred KC Price. I have listened to a lot of his stuff when I was in Seminary at Oral Roberts University. It is guys like this, that led me to write, stuff like this.
It only seems to get worse.
Hey J.R
Very nice post indeed. You are an ORU guy? Fan of Creflo? Just kidding. God bless and I enjoy the dialogue over at http://www.assembling.blogspot.com
I can say, having been a follower of Dr. Price for years, that this man is not a false teacher. Be careful of the things that you say and claim, because you are not going to give an account of what you’ve done, but of what you’ve said on that great day. I must say that the Prosperity Message is alllllll throughout the Bible. If you think it isn’t, look directly at Jesus. JESUS WAS NOT POOR! That’s why black folk think it’s ok to struggle now because we assume that Jesus was poor. You better read your Gospels a little more carefully. That money bag that Judas was stealing from obviously had to have something in it for the other disciples not to notice. Jesus obviously knew (and that is an assumption) but if he knows all, he knew that. The disciples were not poor men whatsoever. Some were professional fishermen and Matthew specifically was a tax collector–a CROOK. He stole people’s money just because he could. He was RICH. Jesus was not going to pick poor individuals to follow him, not because he needed money, but because the poor would follow him because of his example and the fact there were no riches to block their view of him. The disciples really had to learn to love and receive from Jesus from their hearts. So many things Jesus taught them were about the matters of the heart. The fact the Fred Price has a Rolls, or lives in a house bigger than you could ever imagine, is not your problem. You can remian broke and busted because you do not believe the prosperity message-but recognize something, that message goes far beyond money. It is not just about money. It is about living a truly wholesome life. You could be filthy rich, but without the rest of the Word, you’re going to be miserable. This man has led many to salvation and taught principles that have led to the prosperity of many people. IF you would have watched the affirmation last night, you would have found that now, APOSTLE Price (yeah I said it–APOSTLE) had absolutly no clue of what would be going on last night. The rest of FICWFM decided that he should be elevated into this spiritual office. So I have no clue why you are complaining about what took place last evening–it was not forced upon you nor did it take place against your will. Pull some people like Sheldon McCarter out into the open. Or Jimmy Swaggart or Ted Haggard. So I’m going to take up for my APOSTLE and my BISHOP. IF you got a problem with BISHOP I.V. Hilliard–take it up with me.
Okay Ken,
I will respond in list format if that is okay with you.
1. I never said Jesus was Poor. However he didn’t own much either. He was born in a manger, borrowed boats to travel, borrowed a donkey on Palm Sunday, borrowed a place to eat the passover meal, and borrowed a tomb. Now I am not a financial planner but that is a lot of borrowing for a rich man.
2. What if that money bag had the equivalent of 20 dollars in it. Don’t forget Jesus got money for a fish to pay for His and Peter’s taxes. My grandmother has a lot of purses don’t mean there is much in their.
3. Who said I was broke? My account number is 12345-67890 It is at the Swiss Bank of Sydney check my account I got grown man money, Bill Gates money, Tall, deep, wide and long so you suckas can’t hate money! I am saying the bible doesn’t teach prosperity if so can you please write something on it and I promise I will post it here for a love offering of no less than a Gulfstream Jet!
4. Yes you did say Apostle thanks for pointing that out friend.
5. Who is the FICWFM to elevate anybody anywhere? I thought is was Jesus who gave gifts to men when He ascended (Ephesians 4) and the gifts are given by the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12)
6. Is he an Apostle-Bishop or Bishop-Apostle? Or is he two different people when he is two different offices?
7. How do I take it up with you? Do you have a number I can call? Do you have office hours? Where are you located?
But forget all of the jokes (which most of that stuff was). Truth is brother, you have a very warped view of the scriptures and I am concerned for you. Christ never promised us health, wealth or prosperity, at least not in this life. He promised us a thriving relationship with Him and His bride in which all were baptized into. You see the prosperity message only floats in a free economy and most of the world is neck deep in the pond of poverty. It works well here in the U.S and England but very poorly in other places. If you read Hebrews 11 you will see that many godly man and women died with nothing. Some died with a lot. But most of all they died in Christ. So I hope that you are trusting in Christ and not what Mr. Price says Jesus can offer. Christ came to set us free from the power of sin and death, not decay and poverty.
Finally if God wants us to be healthy and rich why does he allow us to get old and sick and die (none of the false prosperity preachers have come up with an answer to this one). You see we are all going to get old and some disease or some type of body failure is going to engulf us. How does your message of health hold up against that? Finally Jesus consistently tells his followers to not store up treasures on earth but in heaven. I hope that you doing that my friend.
I must respond to this because you guys obviously have not been reading your bibles. How dare you question the Apostle Affirmation service of Dr. Price. If you research more you will find out that this was not Dr. Price’s idea or his wish. Other men and women of God around the nationcame together and wanted to do this. Many of you maybe wondering why you can’t get ahead in life or why your family stays so sick, and why things may be up and down in your life. Well I stopped by to let you know that the bible says, “Touch not my anoiting and dod my prohet no harm” If we don’t understand men and women of the cloth it is not our job to put our mouths on the work that they profess. In the evnt they do not do what is right it is for God to judge, not his people. I pray for you. And you should pray for God’s people. Be blessed!
Angela,
As my good friend Melvin would say over at http://www.pulpit-pimps.org “I only put my mouth on my wife”!
Hey you ever notice that Paul and Barnabbas were going to be deemed gods but they turned the opportunity down, and they wanted to make Jesus an earthly king and He said no. Could Price be persistent enough not to accept it? Sure he could. Also read Mattew 7 and 1 Corinthians 6 and see what it says about judging.
Woah Angela! Firstly, there is nothing mature about baseless ad hom attacks on Bro. Lionel’s family health or his progress in any area of his life - that’s just childish.
Secondly, please open your eyes and look at this guy! Fred Price doesn’t seem intimidated by being dubbed an “Apostle” even though he is a documented heretic, and doesn’t even meet one of the prerequsites of the NT apostles. For him, he deserves it (knowing his attitude, he probably thinks so too) so why should he practice humility and refuse it?
Well lionel, you make a good point, but a bad one. You obviously don’t read the same Bible I do. Because mine says:
In St. John 10:10 that Jesus came to give us life and that
we could have it more abundatly.
In 3 John v 2 that God wishes above all things that we prosper and be in health.
Galatians 6:7 says that God is not mocked and whatever a man sows that is what he reaps.
Jesus didn’t tell Peter to look in the mouth of the fish just for the tax money, he was trying to teach Peter a lesson.
The title Bishop is an office first of all; the gift of Apostleship is a gift from Jesus Christ. An apostle is above a Bishop in terms of spiritual maturity and the possession of the five-fold ministry gift. Typically, most of the Apostles I know (including the Apostle Paul) at some point flowed in all five of the ministry gifts. The ability to teach the Word, Pastor the flock, prophecy, and evangelize. Apostle Price flows in all of those at some point in his ministry.
Oh and the answer your question about why we die, read the first three chapters of your bible (if you don’t know, that’s the book of Genesis.) The answer lies in the sin that Adam committed in the garden of eden.
Oh and to clarify Bishop I.V. Hilliard is a completely different individual. He is a spiritual son of Apostle Price. Until you can show me circumstantial evidence of why Apostle Price is a heretic, I’m going to continue to defend him. Until I have probable cause to reject the prosperity message, I will.
AND just to let you know, this message changed the life of my good friend and church member. She now owns her own business and is making quite a hefty amount of money. And before you throw this at me, the reason I didn’t use myself as an example, is because I’m just a student in position for graduation this year…but I’m straight A honor roll.
Ken,
You have provided the typical word of faith verses. I appreciate the conversation but must admit we would just throw scriptures around and at the end of the day neither of us will be edified. I truly hope you are trusting in Christ and if you are then you are my brother indeed. I do want you to know that Mr. Price is a false teacher full of error and scripture twisting. Is he a brother I don’t know, is he to be avoided the answer is yes as a teacher. Take care my friend and I do hope the best for you. I also hope that you can come back and visit the blog or even call me. My number is always available if you like. God bless.
Ken and Angel, I am a pastor and therefore the Lord’s anointed.. so you better not disagree with me when I say Fred KC Price preaches a false gospel of prosperity.
http://www.morethancake.org/2007/11/according-to-gospel-of-greed.html
Lionel,
I just happened to stumble across your divisive thread. Before I go further, I won’t use the term “Apostle” in this reply because you obviously are ignorant and don’t “get” the significance of what this term means as it pertains to Fred Price. Fred Price is a deserving minister of no conceit and pretense and he (and his wife) are very comfortable in their own skins with people calling them by their first names. After all, Jesus (who also has no conceit or pretense), walked this earth without requiring individuals addressing Him with honorifics when speaking to Him. By the way, what office of Ministry are you in Lionel? Do you have a call on your life to Minister? Just wondering…..
For you and others who would want to spend valuable time to make ill-informed statements and opinions about Fred Price leads me to conclude that you have WAY too much time on your hands. Instead of allowing yourself to spew soooo much crap about a man who has had more positive impact on millions of people’s lives, you could be doing the same by doing at least of what is required by getting the unsaved saved. Instead, you and others choose to spend time creating strife - a quick look at 2 Timothy 2:23 will prove this out. In short, the scripture will give you clarity with what you should do when you’re unlearned on an issues. Since you and others don’t understand what has been bestowed on Fred Price, you should just pray that God Almighty give you a revelation and in the meantime, KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELF (and spare me the line about “Freedom of Speech” - God’s rules supersede the laws of the land). If you feel that the “Apostle” title for Fred Price is blasphemy and an abomination, then I do believe that God is more than able to handle His business and chastening those that need to be chastened. Having said that, if you feel that you are spot-on with what you are doing, then continue with what you’re doing. However, if it turns out - when you meet God face to face - that you were mistaken, you will have a lot to answer for and I wouldn’t want to be you. I just thought you should be aware of what your blog could end up being for you on That Day when you are face to face with Him - and since you have read this far, you can’t say to The Almighty that you weren’t warned, because you have just been served a fair warning.
Furthermore sir, let me educate you on a few things from your post on 7/23: The house, land, etc. is not in excess - in fact, he should have more. You make it seem like Fred Price is a freewheeling spendthrift who has taken monies from the church and is spending it on himself - which is so far from the truth. First of all, there are laws that prohibit non-profit corporations from doing things which you assert - if he were doing these things, he would have been hemmed up a long time ago by the Feds for fraud. Fred Price does earn a salary (and not a huge one I might add) and what he does with the salary that the church’s board pays him is his business. I mean really, you don’t see me questioning your decision on your choice of furniture in your house, or the type of car your drive, etc.! Plus, if there were some financial malfeasances on his part, then the church wouldn’t be able to maintain a 30 acre piece of prime real estate in Los Angeles where it’s headquartered as well as a church in New York City and a with facilities, operations, aviation and payroll that aren’t cheap. I run successful business and I practically scream when our company received its annual business insurance bill - our company doesn’t have a need for the volume of real estate, operations, etc. that the church needs and uses, and I shudder when I think about how much it costs the church annually for its insurance!!! Plus, the maintenance, upkeep, etc. (which is extremely expensive) is no joke from a cost perspective. If Fred Price were taking all of the money and doing his own thing, the church wouldn’t exist presently and he’d be in jail. Also, let me upgrade you……Fred Price DOES NOT have a Rolls-Royce - he has a Bentley. The Bentley WAS NOT given to him not by the church membership nor the corporation of the church, but by a group of people who wanted to give him a special gift for his 70th birthday (none of the individuals involved in this gift were coerced to do this by Fred Price or his family). The Rolls-Royce that he HAD was given to him by the church membership via a freewill gift for his birthday in 1985…..an old car by today’s standards - so why are you so hung up on an old car? It goes to show you that you don’t know Fred Price at all - the man is one of the biggest financial givers and of the most frugal individuals who has sound money management skills….skills which he has shared with the congregation and television audience….skills which have helped me to become a person of considerable financial and material wealth. Having said that, do you have a problem with me being able to pay cash for a home or a car….or helping to further the Gospel by donating my time and large sums of money to help the cause…..or buying gifts for people that have had a great and positive impact on my life??? Just so you know, all ministers salaries aren’t majestic in size - so if people want to bless him with gifts (which he, his family or representatives of the church’s corporation DO NOT solicit), he should be more than able to accept and enjoy such gifts. I’m sure if someone were to bless you with a Bentley or Rolls-Royce or whatever, you would drive that thing around with a great big smile on your face and praising God all the way…..and don’t even think about saying that you wouldn’t because you’d be lying. Certainly you don’t have a problem with the financial wealth of Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and the like have. If any of them chose to give Fred Price a personal gift of $2 billion, that’s their business and I’m sure that Fred would put 40%-60% of that money right into other growing ministries as well as CCC.
Lastly, your statement on 7/28 that “…Mr. Price is a false teacher full of error and scripture twisting…” is unfounded. A person who genuinely practices what is taught in God’s Word - which Fred Price teaches, can and will arrive at the same place the He and millions of others have arrived. If you were smart, you’d put what is taught (all Bible-centered and untouched) to use so that you could be in a better place both spiritually and financially. You should be so thankful that Fred Price has shared the information with the masses in his office as a minister - otherwise, he could just be a wealthy person of color who studied the Bible and achieved spiritual and material wealth by simply following what God’s Word says. If it were me, I wouldn’t be inclined to share such information with the masses if I knew that individuals like you would have this “crabs in the bucket” mindset. It’s astounding that in 2008, people of color like yourself are so blinded by negativity that you can’t even see how what is ministered can help you arrive in a place so that you can live a better life (I’m sure you have bills, debt of some sort, etc. and are looking for some definitive relief). As for myself, I will continue to do what I have been taught and will be even wealthier this year than last year. What about you? By the way, have you achieved any level of spiritual or material gains as a result of you starting this blog…..if so, please let me know the scriptures which details how you or anyone would arrive at such a level of success so that I can examine it for myself.
If Fred Price weren’t having a positive impact on so many people, then the “trappings” of success which you and others are so topically caught up with wouldn’t exist. Despite your feelings about Fred Price, you should a least be thankful that a man such as him exists because he has helped raise the level of expectation of practically every Black person in America in one form or another, either directly or indirectly.
Also, J.R. Miller - you may very well be a pastor - but you come off like a hack. Just like you, Lionel and others have asserted themselves to spew crap about Fred Price, Ken, Angel a host of others and I have every right to shed the truth to combat your divisive statements. If you are truly God’s anointed, certainly you have better things to do with your time than to try and be as stupid to threaten someone with your ministerial position. You must be a very little person who is trying to compensate for specific lacks somewhere in life. It makes me wonder how prosperous your ministry is as well as the spiritual wellness of your congregation - despite how large it might be.
Lionel, you and your kind should flee hateration. It’s old, worn out and totally un-Christlike.
Hey Agape,
Did Jesus who was crucified, Paul who was beheaded, James who was beheaded, John who was beheaded, and a slew of other Christians who have died for their faith prosperous. Not to mention our brothers and sister in China, Pakistan, India, Iraq and other place are being killed daily. Many of our brothers and sisters in Ethiopia and Sudan are dying everyday are their ministries successful? What do you deam to be a successful ministry?
Yes I am a minister read 1 Peter 2. I am actually a priest with a very successful “ministry”.
Amen agape. Has anyone read the book of acts were as the priest were trying to plot against the apostles sayin that they were in error and trying to find a way to get ride of them. Well out of all of them there was only on who had some since saying that if there ministry is not of God it will soon come to nought but if it is of God then you won’t be fight against but God himself. Please believe that God is by no means asleep on the wheel, we have seen it time, and time again with those that are in the ministry regardless of how big or small there ministry is and how many people that they tryed to pay to cover up there mess that the scripture “that which you have done in secret I will reward you in public” always holds true from david to Jamall B., and from Eli’s sons to Jimmy S. But every thing that people have thrown at Fred Price has never stood longer than a few months because of the man’s integrity. Now I earge every one please stop at look at you ministry before you judge the next man. YOU CALLED NO ONE INTO THE GOSPEL JESUS DID!!!!!!!! Have a wonderful day.
Hey E. Woods,
You brought up some good points. One being the use of the scriptures from Acts 4 (I think this is what you are referring to). And you are absolutely correct. As the post come through I don’t know if this post was a big help at all. Maybe more frustration than not. I do believe Mr. Price to be a false teacher/wolf, but I should teach against the theology and not the man and allow God to bring it down if He so pleases. Great scripture reference and I actually was wrestling though that this weekend.
Please note that I am not fighting against God but I am trying to assist Him and that could be just as dangerous. God bless. By the way I have looked at his ministry and it doesn’t stand the scrutiny of the scriptures. I hope that you can see that.
ok. So let’s say Jesus was poor and we are to follow in his footsteps and be poor just the same. Now, how do you, as a poor person, go out and change the life of another poor person who lives in poverty and poor health? Do you give them food? If so how much? As much as they need despite your financial ability or as much as you can afford? What happens when you resources dry up? Is it that you are putting your faith in God to supply all your needs? Well it is by no means a NEED for you to give such a person food, your only need is to get them saved. It would be your DESIRE to give them food and medicine, because then they will be more inclined to hear the Word. And if God doesn’t supply you the desires of your heart, you’re out of luck (good thing he does though). So you are ultimately at the mercy of others (ie the world since Christians are to be poor like Jesus) to supply you with finances in order to get poor, unhealthy people to join a faith with other poor, unhealthy people who will eventually die of some disease or illness as someone put it earlier. And this is what you profess the Scriptures to say. Apparently you haven’t rightly divided the Word. It must easy for you to read the Bible and understand everything because you’re taking every word, phrase, sentence, punctuation mark, etc at face value. Let me the first to tell you that the Bible is not merely a reference manual but a Spiritual book, that requires the Holy Spirit to truly understand and decipher all that lies within. That is why so many make claims against men like Fred Price, a man who receives his teachings by REVELATION. You don’t understand it. You don’t understand his relationship with God. It’s funny because it echoes the scribes and pharisees who didn’t understand Jesus and his relationship with his father. But Jesus didn’t come here to live, he came specifically to die so there was no need to make a foundation and home here. But I can almost assure you that if you believe the Scripture as it says in Revelation 21:21 “And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass,” then if Jesus did decide to come to earth and live then he would live very close to where he came from, far grander than any of the kings of the old testament of whom he was the reason they were blessed. We are not here to die, but to live. That was his reason for coming, so that we may have life and life more ABUNDANTLY. Not life and life less abundantly. Now I’m curious, how would YOU describe an abundant life? And however you describe it, that is where YOU need to put your faith until it comes to pass for you. I define an abundant life, firstly as an abundance of life, to live as long as my body can stand and die of old age and worn out temple rather than some disease, a prosperous life where I don’t have to slave in an office most of my life and can have more time with family, more resources so that I can bless the kingdom and if I didn’t go myself, SPONSOR missionaries to go do the work of the Lord. I could go on, but the real issue here is that there is a devilish spirit at work in the minds of men. It must be if a person claiming to love Christ spends his time, any time, speaking ill will against another who claims to love Christ. Now if you don’t believe him then that’s fine, but it is not up to you to judge. If you’ve read the old testament God has a way of dealing with folx, granted he doesn’t do that kind of punishment since the new convenant, but he will definitely allow something to happen to you if you allow it. That’s the essence of free will. So if you are a heretic, and speaking false doctrines then you are open and more likely to succumb to the attacks of the enemey (Satan). Well my Grandfather has been attacked a number of times in his life but has never succumbed. He must be rolling with God. Only Satan comes to steal, kill and destroy but Jesus came so that we could have life and life more abundantly. Any will tell you that my Grandfather looks great for being 76 and there is no doubt that he lives abundantly and thats with giving over half of everything he earns back to God. Oh yeah, his tithing has almost reached 50%, almost 5 times what is required by God’s law. And as a result of the bountiful seed he sews, he reaps also bountifully. And it comes from everywhere. I will conclude with a question: You call my grandfather a heretic and false teacher, yet he says nothing to you or in reference to you; didn’t the scribes and pharisees also consider Jesus to be a heretic, blasphemer and false prophet? Were they wrong? Is it possible that you are wrong? If so and to echo Agape, do you really want to be held accountable for promoting and promulgating this kind of message against one of the Lord’s most brightest pupils?
Lionel,
It’s simple - as I stated to a degree in my previous message, a successful ministry is one in which the congregation, viewers, etc. apply what is scripturally taught to their lives and then have the positive results that come forth from said message. Yes, those that you have mentioned who have died for their Faith ARE successful because of their endurance and the fact that they are keeping folks out of hell. Keep in mind that the challenges that they are faced with comes as a result of the fact that they are ministering Salvation in regions which aren’t Christ-friendly. Since you and I live in a country which - for all intents and purposes - is Christ-friendly, we have an advantage over those in other regions and are able to not only be taught and receive Salvation freely (and not be persecuted by governments and such), but also receive the benefits that come with Salvation (healing, deliverance, financial & material prosperity, etc.) - should we choose to accept and apply them to our lives. I will add that there are many financially anemic Christians in the U.S. and worldwide and their decision to remain that way is their choice. However, it does not do them or anyone any good if they aren’t economically empowered to go out and fulfill The Great Commission. The last time I checked, traveling abroad or to support missionaries in regions around the world cost money - so where is that money coming from? Is God dropping it out of the sky?
It might interest you to know that Fred Price, the ministry at CCC, FICWFM, etc. are Missions-minded first and foremost and do financially support Missions quite extensively and have established successful Missions bases worldwide to proclaim Jesus.
Let me clarify the query from my last message: as a minister - what title do you hold within the five fold ministry that God established (Ephesians 4:11)? I’m glad that you mentioned 1 Peter 2 because the first verse in that chapter really reinforces the point that this thread is divisive. In addition, if you look at the 9th verse of that chapter you will see the term “royal.” “Royal” connotes wealth and prosperity. Since God has proclaimed a “royal priesthood,” one can conclude that He is not opposed to wealth. The fact that the streets of Heaven are made of gold are evident of this. Furthermore, Psalms 35:27 underscores God’s approval of prosperity.
Some passages for you to marinade on:
Luke 6:37-39
John 14:12
1 Timothy 6 (THE ENTIRE CHAPTER)
But Alan doesn’t God want us all to be healthy, prosperous and wealthy in EVERY area of life? If so then why can’t God still bless them in regions that are “not friendly” to Christianity. So that means that what God wants is blocked by the strength of the government in those anti-friendly nations. That means that God’s Omnipotence is called into question right? He isn’t stong enough to bless those people though He wants them blessed.
Agape,
So in the context of 1 Peter 2 Royalty=Worldy Wealth? Hmm… That is interesting, interesting indeed, so what does the chosen nation, living stones, and spiritual house refer to?
Why is it important which Gift I posses? Paul says “if I am to boast I am to boast in the Lord” Jesus tells the disciples “don’t rejoice because the demons are subject to you, but rejoice that your name is written in the book of life”.
Alan,
How do you know how much your grandpa gives? Jesus says “don’t let your left hand know what your right is doing” as it relates to giving and the such. We are to give in secret correct? So how do you know how much he gives then?
Lionel,
It is clear and self explanatory what “chosen nation” & “living stones” & “spiritual house” refer to. The “royal” mention in verse 9 connotes all things royal both here on Earth and in Heaven.
The reason why it is important to know what area if ministry your are in possess is because you state that you have a successful ministry. I am not asking you to boast - far from it. A bonafide minister knows what area of focus he/she is to be in and is able to provide that information without fail - after all, who wants to hear from a hack or a quack that has no credentials or evidence of what he/she should be focused in from a ministry perspective. For instance, if I were in need of medical attention and if you were to tell me that you were a doctor, it would help to know what kind of doctor you are. To answer the doctor question with “why is it important to know what kind of doctor I am?”, because you feel it would be boastful to provide that information, doesn’t do any good because you could be a foot doctor and that does me no good when in fact I might need to see a dentist. Ergo, “minister” is a broad term. Please elucidate and explain what area of ministry you are in. After all Lionel, it is a simple and easy question that deserves a simple and easy answer. If you are a Pastor, then just say so. Conversely, if you are a hack, then continue to dodge the question and everyone can conclude that’s what you are.
Furthermore, since Alan is his grandson, then I’m sure that he is privy to what his grandfather does. Would you not share specific things with your child which would to help set an example of what that child should do?
Hey Lionel, you said, ” So that means that what God wants is blocked by the strength of the government in those anti-friendly nations.”
Actually, according to Fred KC Price, you are right. Price teaches that God is limited by the actions of man. God cannot do anything in this realm without our cooperation.
As to what Price makes, I heard him say that he makes a million dollars a year. But he is worth it if you consider the fact that without his teaching on prayer that works 100$ of the time, people would be left with prayers for cars and homes that would never get answered.
And did I read that right? Someone called me a “hack.” I am shocked that anyone would dare to touch the Lord’s anointed… oh wait, I see. That only applies to special men like Price. Anyone who disagrees with him is obviously not covered by the OT protection clause.
Agape LOL!!,
For your name to be Agape you aren’t very loving, tenderhearted or kind. But lets see if this answers your question
1. I preach the Gospel
2. I teach the bible
3. I evangelize
4. I participate in Missions work
What does that make me?
LOL Mr. Miller AKA Joe,
Hey Alan or Agape why are you touching God’s anoninted? Don’t you know you shouldn’t put your mouth on the man of God? How do you respond to that?
Oh Lionel, one more thing on prayer. If, you want to have your prayers answered your way every time, remember, according to Fred KC Price, NEVER pray “they will be done” That is a weak prayer that is offensive to God (I learned that listening to Fred preach).
It never hurts to know quality tips like that.
Lionel,
OK, so you are an Evangelist? Is this what I am to conclude? If you are, shouldn’t you be working to get people saved versus running a thread like this? If you think what you are doing is “evangelising,” then you are seriously mistaken.
With regards to my name - we all as Christians should be loving, tenderhearted and kind. I’m not the one who started this thread, so what kind of Agape love are you actually showing by doing so? Running sites like this is not Agape indeed and guess what, I am very much loving, tenderhearted and kind….otherwise, I would not do my best to help you see the error in your way. Food for thought Lionel.
As for you Mr. Miller aka Joe, if you’re God’s anointed and speaking about Fred Price (also God’s anointed) the way you do, then aren’t you going against your own beliefs about “not touching God’s anointed.” A true minister would practice what he preaches, otherwise, he is a hack and a charlatan. Which are you sir? Additionally, I don’t see Fred Price on this site crossing swords with you because he’s presently ministering - so I’m guessing that IF you are God’s anointed and are on this site spewing the venom and hatred which you have been doing - you have too much time on your hands as well. You should be doing your appointed and anointed job (you job, of which, is what in the five fold ministry?). Check yourself before your wreck yourself sir……oops, too late…..
Agape,
I never said I am an evangelist. I listed things that I do that doesn’t make me anything other than a believer and a minister wich all Christians are
Next as you know. Mr. Price says every Christian should be rich and thus if you are not it is because of a lack of faith. This is a lie from the hottest corner of hell’s pit. This isn’t true and isn’t close to being true. Tell me. Read the 2 letter to Timothy. Did Paul die rich? What about 2 Corinthians 11? Did John the Baptist die wealthy, healthy, and with all of his body parts in tact? You still never addressed the fact that Jesus could have had the equivalent of $20 dollars in his money bag. Just because Judas carried the money doesn’t mean anything is in their. Come to think of it. I remember one of the disciples telling Jesus “we don’t have enough money to buy bread for all of these seated” Jesus then took a few loaves and a couple of fishes and did His thing.
Tell me something Agape. You seem to be a fair individual. Read Acts 20 for me. When Paul says be aware of wolves was that loving? Now the problem lies here! Is Price a wolf or a shepherd. The alarming consensus throughout evangelicalism is wolf. Do you believe these men are jealous? You have to at least consider our position. When John in his 3rd epistle called out Diatrophes was that loving? What about in 2 Timothy 2 when Paul said some pretty mean things about some other false teachers?
I believe our problem isn’t one of if there is a need to call people charlatans and the such because you used the word quite freely in your post. The problem is you believe you are right and we are wrong. We say his message is antithetical to the Gospel you believe otherwise. So there we have it. We disagree. I may actually be feuling the growth of Mr. Price and his false message by posting him on my blog. Thus I will stop because I run the risk of you accepting him as a martyr which we never want to give him the opportunity to become.
Agape,
I would like to ask friend, how would you respond to these following gentleman,
“”Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits” (Jesus Christ Matthew 7:15-20)
” I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears.” (Apostle Paul Acts 20:29-31)
“If we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed(literally damned) (Apostle Paul Gal 1:8-9)
“12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!”(Apostle Paul Gal 5:12)
Now you stated in the earlier post that
“Running sites like this is not Agape indeed and guess what, I am very much loving, tenderhearted and kind….otherwise, I would not do my best to help you see the error in your way.”
Based on words of Christ Jesus and the Apostle He chose, are you willing to still put the same words forward?
Dear brother, your argumentation is not sound because you are expliciting stating that bringing correction or point out error is unloving. Dear sir this is most loving. Yet you are doing the very thing that you are protesting against.
Remember we must CONTEND for the faith.
Love you,
Phillip
Agape, you are welcome to watch me as I share in this video what I perceive to be the heart of God our Father
http://www.morethancake.org/2008/07/are-you-ready-for-family-reunion.html
If you are more compelled to seek out wealth than what I describe in this sermon, there is not much more than I can say.
The Apostle Paul, a genuine Apostle, said that he learned to be content in all circumstances. He was content when he had money and content when he was poor. He was content when he was among the church and content when he was in prison.
Again, if you prefer Price’s message that one should not be content in all circumstances, but only content with earthly riches, then there is not much more than I, or anyone, can say except I pray you find peace in the love of Christ that surpasses all of life’s circumstances.
CLAP——–CLAP———CLAP
How funny!
What does this man have that causes everyone to pay so much attention to him.
If I disagree with someone, you will not hear me mention his/her or their names.
But, I guess the shoe fits that everyone is wearing.
So HOLLLA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You would not be in agreement with:
John or Paul or Jude or many other writers of the scripture. Thanks for the fly-by comment however.
And yet, Too Funny, you felt the urge to express your disagreement here… what size shoe do you wear?
Ironic right Mr. Miller?
I do have to ask: Lionel are you a Calvinist? Does this influence your view of Apostle Price?