Below is Chuck’s response to a small little dialouge we have going and I want to address this. Why? The bible tells us to “give a defense”. So I want to properly defend the faith and hopefully someone else who is a non-christian can see what Christianity is and what it isn’t. Here is Chuck’s comment:
Tyris,
My stance is bigger than the both of us. You are still asking about this God (with the little ‘g’) that I serve, but it’s not really about that. It’s about freeing yourself and getting in touch with your spirituality. You are natrually spiritual. You don’t need some book to tell you how to act and who to be like. Because you want to follow this Jesus like prototype, you do not allow yourself to ask questions and challenge to very purpose of…your own religion. WAKE UP…YOU ARE BEING CONTROLLED. Sadly enough, you don’t even know what it is that is controlling you… it’s FEAR. You believe that God/Jesus, whom loves you so much, will cast your nerveless and fleshless spirit into some lake o’ fire…if you don’t follow a book and accept the unseen and unproven… yet, I’m the ignorant one.
Let’s take a look at what religion does:
It divides, creates indifferences, introduces prejudice, ignite wars, causes genocide, etc… I can go on and on.
Religion has not one good concrete purpose. Some people believe that it will get them closer to God. However… all of use are equally close to our creator.
You said: “What can we do to help clear up your confusion or better yet what can be done on your part to clear up our’s?”
Do this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A&feature=relatedPaste this to your browser and check out all three vidoes.
The video that I supplied the link for… view it and the other two parts to it. Research it without prejudice. Don’t ignore any facts. NEXT: Study the art of spirituality, compare it to the purpose of religion and determine which one limits you and which one allows you to expand your real growth and development. While doing so… ignore your fear. Lastly… know that you are doing this for yourself and not for me. Free yourself… and meet me on the otherside or Stay and wait for the end of days.
Here is a response to that.
Chuck I want to answer your question using my traditional method. So here we go.
1. You said it is not about the God you serve. I would differ greatly. You have only three options. There is no God, You are God, or There is a God. Your belief on this is huge if there can be any meaningful dialogue.
2. Christians don’t believe that Jesus will cast some nerveless and fleshless body into some ol lake of fire. We believe that you will have all of your senses, and your body will be ressurected and then it will be casted into the lake of fire. In other words you will have a body in hell it won’t be a spirit as you say.
3. Christians also don’t believe that we are rule driven. We are “faith” driven. Christianity is not about rules and books and good deeds, it is about a person. Pronounced Jesus the Christ in the english language.
4. It is funny that you mention the unseen and unproven but in turn challenge us to seek some form of “spirituality”. Also you are correct we are “naturally spiritual” I would agree with that 100%.
Next let me address your next paragraphs/statements.
1. You are correct about what religion does. We see religion was used to condone slavery, we have the Crusades, we have the 30 years War, we have genocide and we have other such acts. There is only one problem Christianity condones none of these.
- Here is an example. Just say you owned a business and uniforms were required. What if I put on your uniform went out and shot, killed, raped, and burned down a neighboring city in the name of Pierce’s Interprise (imaginary name)? When the newspapers and newscasters start putting your face all over the place and your business in destroyed what is your response? It will be “this guy has never worked for me” “I don’t know him”. Well the same will be for some of these individuals. They are not on our team, they just went out and purchased a jersey.
2. The funny thing is you refuse to accept the theological truth of the Christian life. None of those things you listed should ever be done in the name of Christ. We don’t live by the sword, we believe in the value of all races because of the unifying work of the Cross, we believe in providing for the poor and needy and we definitely are not to be indifferent but engaing our culture through politcs, commerce, sports, arts, and education. Thus you have painted everyone with a broad brush and I know you are smarter than that.
3. You say religion has not one good concrete purpose and I say you are 100% correct if the end goal of that religion is religion. Once again Christianity is about a person, and this person was God in flesh. He came to satisfy the wrath that has been stored up because of our offense to God.
- Here is the next question Chuck. If someone broke into your home, raped, murdered, and burned your family, confessed to it and then laughed. Later he goes to court and the judge and jury says “well he seems like a pretty good guy other than this little mishap, we will give him 1 day in jail and he will have to do 5 hours community service”. What would you think of that judge my friend? What about the jury? Well the same goes for the Holy Creator of this world, He has been offended by those created to worship Him and thus the just penalty He has imposed is eternal seperation.
4. Christians are also not motivated by fear. But love for a Savior who substituted Himself for us and bore our wrath, dying the death of a criminal but being innoncent. He offered Himself out of love and thus we love Him. God would have been fully just to condemn us all, but has intervened by sending His Son to die for us. We aren’t afraid. We are His children and He calls us friend. We approach God with confidence that what we receive is loving wisdom, guidance and correction if necessary. We do revere are Lord because we understand His greatness but this reverence is the same reverence we have for our earthly mothers and fathers.
Finally Chuck you continually paint Christianity caricaturally. You have not once addressed the heart of the Gospel message. Not once. You have used the worst case scenarios in every presentation of the Christian Faith you can find. The truth is many people have come and will come in the name of Christ and do wicked and evil things. They will also use the bible as the platform. The funny thing is the bible already discusses these things. I promise you this it will get worse before it gets better. But we as the people of God can recognize such false teachers and prophets. We don’t count them on our team bro.
Simply put the Gospel is this. Christ the Son of God came to earth to bear the sins of the world. He was proven to be the Son of God by His ressurection. He showed Himself to many people over a given period of time to prove that what was prophesied about Him in the Old Testament was true. He is the Messiah who is now our righteousness. He is our Prophet, Priest, King, Lord, God, and just as if not more importantly our sacrificial lamb in which if we put our trust in Him we now have access to the Creator of the World and we have a promise that this body that we are in will perish but only to be raised and glorified. We will reign with God in a restored heaven and earth where sin and death will no longer intrude upon this relationship.
You have to come to grips with that. Christianity is not about buildings, religion, money, or good deeds. It is about a person who came to serve His creation in love and humility. Because of that we worship Him, not because what he can do for us but for what he DID for us. Once again study the scriptures without your biases. I am extremely sorry that you believe your encounter with Christianity in the past made you feel like a “puppet” this is extremely sorrowful for me as I am always concerned that Christianity will get a bad rep. Let me tell you that this is not the Christianity of the bible. We are in love with a person who “first loved us” and proved this love by “hanging on a tree”. We don’t owe God anything. As he told David in 2 Samuel “you want to build me a house”! God laughed at such a statement. We can’t offer God anything, He is self satisfied and self sufficient. What we do offer He takes because of His grace, but what He offered us we must receive by faith. Won’t you choose Christ today and receive Him as your Lord. Christ is patient but His patience will run short and your life will end and there is one promise in scripture that rings loud and clear “it is appointed once for a man to die and then the judgment”. Be found righteous in Christ and not your own “spirituality” as you call it. God will not accept mankind on any other terms than the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. How simple it is to put your trust in Him but how complicated sin makes it. Charles, you will die it is inevitable, but you can have assurance that you can reign with Christ forever. Don’t make the mistake othes have, there are eternal consequences.
Lionel,
Your love for me is obvious and I really do appreciate that.
However, your post is somewhat contradicting…Here’s why:
At first you say, “…Christians are also not motivated by fear.”
Then you say, “…Christ is patient but His patience will run short and your life will end and there is one promise in scripture that rings loud and clear “it is appointed once for a man to die and then the judgment”…
Lastly you say, “…Don’t make the mistake others have, there are eternal consequences.”
What is this… is this a warning? What’s the purpose of a warning? Warning statements are a description of a potentially undesireable situation, which if not avoided could result in death or serious injury or as you stated “eternal consequences”. Will you even admit that this is a fear tactic?
As I stated, Let’s take a look at what religion does:
It divides, creates indifferences, introduces prejudice, ignite wars, causes genocide, etc… I can go on and on.
Religion has not one good concrete purpose.
You say, “You are correct about what religion does. We see religion was used to condone slavery, we have the Crusades, we have the 30 years War, we have genocide and we have other such acts.
Okay Lionel… here is my stance… I don’t believe in organized religion. I have stated that religion does more harm than good… You agreed.
The bible, is a man made book of Plagiarized stories that were stolen from the ancient egyptians. This book, whether understood or misunderstand, has brought about pain, suffering and injustice to millions (maybe billions) of innocent people. Supposedly, the bible is the infallible word of God. That means that it is perfect… holy, without error. Well which version? Why has man saw fit to edit the bible (oops, I mean the word of God)? Why does one version have 66 while another version has 72 books?
The evidence is right in front of you.
Chuck,
It really depends on your stance as it relatest to fear. Fear is healthy. Let me give you an example. You don’t drink rat poision because of the consequences. Are you motivated by fear? Yes a healthy fear. I will tell everyone that if you are coming to God only in fear of eternal damnation then somone has not preached the Gospel clearly to you.
As for your comment on scripture The Koran motivates some man to drive planes into buildings it motivates others to serve faithfully in their communities. The same for the bible, in the hands of any zealot the bible can be a tool of great destruction. But here is the challenge again.
Show me in the Gospel how this is so. You have failed to do that. What is it about Jesus’ message that cause man to do the evils you clearly described? Zeal with no real understanding is what it is. As it relates to plagerizing and all I will say that the bible takes faith just like any other set of beliefs. I will not sit here and agree with those who say it doesn’t. Some of the historic events can be easily validated, but things like the flood, Red Sea, Jonah and the Fish, and ultimately the Ressurection takes faith.
I am glad that you have continued to dialouge and let me or Tyris know if you have any additional questions. I will say that without faith the bible is a bunch of allegories and Jesus is just another dude. That faith is a work of God thus we will continue to appeal to Him on your behalf. I would ask that you PLEASE CONTINUE to visit and comment.
I do appreciate your kindness and openeness although I think you dodged the question on what exactly do you believe. God bless and I look forward to more conversations and we have to hook up when I come home. I would love to meet the family over dinner and introduce you to Charity and Caleb.