Wow!! John Piper is having some Holy Hip Hop Rappers in his church on February 1st, 2008. It is amazing seeing how the Gospel of Christ transcends the barriers we as futile humans put up due to our ignorance of HIM. I can’t fathom why Piper would have these guys in his church-but why not? They know the Gospel and have a changed life to match their professions. Lionel and I both struggle to understand why some of these guys do a lot of concerts in Word of Faith churches but Lecrae somewhat answered that for me in this video. What a testimony his life has been. This really coincides with the article Lionel most recently wrote that deals with being a “Catalyst” in our society. We have to as Christians reach out to all regardless of appearances and differences. I wonder if Lecrae had been reached out to-lets says by a white man, would he be a Christian. I believe yes, because the Gospel message will penetrate the heart of the His chosen. As Lecrae mentioned he felt the love of Christ from the brethren. We have to be faithful with our presentation of the Gospel and use the resources to reach the elect. Not to bash anyone, but this is why I have a problem with Craige Lewis because he bashes brothers like this who know the Gospel and see Hip Hop as a avenue to reach the lost. Hip Hop is not inherently evil. Christ calls us to be agents/ambassadors in this world, all while not being of the world but catalyst in the world.
In Christ Alone
Piper is answering the challenge. Music transcend culture brother and the Gospel even more! What a lovely testimony from a brother I love and respect greatly.
Ditto on the thoughts, Brah.
I witnessed a good bit of the interview and was truly grateful. Taking back the culture 4 Christ instead of hiding from it.
Sadly, though, it’s still a trip seeing how many people are continually trying to shoot things like this down. Of course, many of them have valid reasons….as is the case with many within the HOLY HIP HOP Movement who’ve gone about things in the wrong way in the name of Christ (i.e. pragmatic approaches, lacking discernment/not speaking against ungodly behaviors or doing so and yet still practicing them in public, not being clearly distinctive between themselves and the world due to their lyrics/lifestyle, etc)…….and that needs to be called out.
But then, low and behold, people go to the OTHER EXTREME and label EVERYONE AS IN ERROR….and now we’re back to what Jesus was describing when the disciples had a problem since the people casting out demons didn’t “look like them” or come from the same group
I told Brother Lionel about this, regarding a discussion I was having with someone elsewhere whether drums were used in the Bible and were appropiate for worship today. In his words, he mentioned instruments that were approved or not approved for temple worship in order to refute the claim that the Israelites used all kinds of instruments in worship and that God accepts any kind of worship if it is supposedly done with a “sincere” heart.
I went on to make clear that , when it comes to the issue of drums or urban worship, there are PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO’VE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY’RE ABLE TO SEE A DIFFERENCE—-from respected theologians such as John Piper to many others within the Hip Hop Culture itself who pay attention and listen to the CONTENT OF WHAT THE MUSICIANS/CHRISTIAN INDIVIDUALS ARE SAYING and how they’re not picking up EVERY ASPECT OF THE CULTURE….BIUT BEING RELEVANT TO THE CULTURE…
However, in his words,
“”"The good news of the Lord Jesus Christ is relevant to all cultures! It does not need to be changed, mixed with, or conformed to the cultural aspects of a particular society.
Instead the gospel calls upon the culture (the acts and thoughts of the people) to conform to the gospel.”"”
“”"The relevance of the message of the Bible, i.e. the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ, is not based on or helped by believers trying to mimic a lost society.”"”
“”"All believers need to do is to put the gospel out in the open. It penetrates through the cultural aspects, through the natural repulsion of the sinful rebellious heart, to convict of sin and give faith to lost sinners. (In the Bible, the purpose of music is worship of God and teaching of fellow believers – not evangelism.)Yes, the gospel transcends all culture. That means that it is above all worldly cultures not a part of all cultures. The gospel establishes a godly culture.
“They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” John 17:16……..Solomon Spaulding went from England to Brazil. In Brazil he was met by two main cultures: spiritism and Roman Catholicism. In his evangelistic messages and tracts, instead of “respecting” those cultures, he spoke against the false teachings and practices of those two cultures. Yes, he had “a bit of trouble” with those cultures. He was often persecuted, barely escaping with his life in many situations. But the more he was persecuted, the more people who believed in Jesus Christ and left their former lives. He was sad when he wasn’t persecuted, because he knew that fewer would believe.”"”"
“”"”You are right. The gospel does not “fly” if the evangelist does not respect the culture. People who want to keep their worldly culture instead of repenting and being converted to the culture of the good news are usually antagonistic towards it. Today, even in many churches, the good news is not well received. They want their self-styled programs, but they reject the program of Romans 12:1-2.”"”
“”"”God, please send more men like Spaulding to expose the ungodliness of worldly cultures. Rebuke those missionary societies who use psychological tests instead of the fruit of the Spirit and giftedness for the purpose of choosing missionaries.”"”"”
“”"
I’ve since decided to politely back out of the discussion at that point. Honestly, I didn’t know what else to say….and that even despite the points I brought up from Scripture with folks like Daniel, Joseph, Paul, and others, that people will still rail as if kats like Lecraee and others are in the wrong.
My stance, as Bible.org said best ,
http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1343
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, though not being myself under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, that I might win those who are without law. To the weak, I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some. And I do all things for the sake of the gospel, that I may become a fellow-partaker of it (1 Cor. 9:19-23).
To Paul, as to all of the apostles, the gospel was primary, and culture was secondary. Gentiles did not have to adopt the Jewish culture to be saved for the gospel did not require it. Neither Jews nor Gentiles were compelled to forsake their culture, as long as the gospel was not compromised by it. Whenever the gospel could be promoted by adapting to the culture of another, the preaching of the gospel required such change. In addition to the implications of the gospel which govern culture, culture is also an important consideration because of its impact on the gospel.
The decision of the Jerusalem Council was the watershed of world evangelization in the Book of Acts. Once it was determined that the Jewish culture was not an essential part of the gospel, the gospel was freed from its cultural bonds and seen to be a universal message of salvation to all men. While this was a change that required a total reorientation on the part of Jewish Christians, it was not a change without considerable precedent, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament gospels.
When God created the nation Israel and brought them out of Egypt, He gave them the Mosaic Law in order to provide them with a standard of righteousness, with a promise of redemption, and with a prescription for a culture which would isolate them from the godless paganism of the heathen nations around them. When Israel was outside of the land, it was not possible to live completely under the law for they were not able to offer sacrifices in the prescribed places, nor were they able to isolate themselves from the cultures of their captors.
The first example of this is found in Joseph. When he realized that he would live out his life and die in Egypt, he chose to adopt much of the culture of the Egyptians. Before Joseph stood in Pharaoh’s presence, he shaved (Gen. 41:14), which was culturally very significant. A beard was highly regarded in Israel (cf. 2 Sam. 10:4-5), but in Egypt it was not. Joseph revealed wisdom by adapting to the culture of his day, yet in a way that did not violate any biblical principle. A beard was really a matter of culture, not of creed. By taking the Egyptian’s language, their dress, and even an Egyptian wife (cf. Gen. 41:45), Joseph identified himself with the Egyptians in a way that made his ministry more acceptable, yet without any sacrifice of biblical principle.
Perhaps Daniel is the most striking example of cultural concession in the Old Testament. In Daniel 1 we find the prophet and his three Hebrew friends taken captive to Babylon. We know these men best in terms of what they refused to do. All four refused to partake of the king’s choice food and wine (Dan. 1:8-16), which seemed to be associated with idolatrous worship. (In this case, it would be consistent with the prohibitions of Acts 15:20, 29.) Daniel refused to cease praying (Dan. 6), and his three friends would not bow down to the golden image (Dan. 3). In focusing our attention on what these four men refused to do we sometimes fail to take note of the cultural concession they were willing make. They were submissive to the king’s requirements by becoming educated in the schools of Babylon for three years, and of serving the king as advisors. These men, even in their youth, had the God-given wisdom to discern between what was culturally acceptable and what was not. They were able to faithfully serve God and to be witnesses to Him, even in a pagan land, because they could discern the elements of that culture which were an offense to God. Perhaps they were aware of the words of the prophet Jeremiah:
Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, to all the exiles whom I have sent into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon, “Build houses and live in them; and plant gardens, and eat their produce. Take wives and become the fathers of sons and daughters, and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; and multiply there and do not decrease. And seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf; for in its welfare you will have welfare” (Jer. 29:4-7).
hmmmm, interesting discussion,
some of our members are old enough to remember the same type of discussion taking place many years ago when young people like Andrae Crouch, and the Hawkins family began to break away from tradition…it was called evil…ungodly…satan’s music…the same things that are now being said about Christian Hip Hop…and yet now twenty years later it is o.k.,
Jesus said…
that was Matthew 28:18-20, notice that Jesus makes no mention of style or delivery…and that is what is being debated style and delivery. God is far less interested in how many beats per minute…He is more concerned with what and who our hearts are beating for.
Well, in terms of good research practice, G. Craige Lewis did a real sloppy job in his appraisal of HHH. Now I agree that there are a lot of terrible Christian rappers, but then again, what about FLAME, T-Dot, Lecrae and co.? If I remember distinctly, Mr. Lewis slated the Cross Movement on his site because they don’t believe in the sign gifts…which again, in terms of research practice, is really sloppy and biased.
I would pose this question to Mr. Lewis: What about men like shai linne? He is technically a musical expositor! What about Reach Records? They got a lot of folks to pick up their Bibles and read the Epistles when they did 13 Letters. I commend pastors like Dr. Piper who realize that these guys are simply taking the Gospel to guys who would usually shun your average Reformed pastor. Like I heard once, “We ought to use timely methods and hold to timeless Truth”