Comments on: The Black and Reformed Christian’s Dilemma http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/ "But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises." Hebrews 8:6 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:18:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: John http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-5965 John Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:34:18 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-5965 The writer's problem is not that "white" reformed churches don't talk more about the "black experience", the problem is that the writer can't get over the love for his black skin and culture. The real problem is that a majority of black churches are, like black culture, morally corrupt. As far as the other minorities not feeling comfortable in white led churches, I've yet to read one of them state that they've been taught falsley or haven't been fed spiritually. Their only whine is that "not to many people look like me. My solution to them is to trust in grace not race and to be upset more about sin and less about skin. As far as "Lionel" goes, he's the one who needs to take off the hood. If we are in Christ then we r reconciled to other believers. The writer’s problem is not that “white” reformed churches don’t talk more about the “black experience”, the problem is that the writer can’t get over the love for his black skin and culture. The real problem is that a majority of black churches are, like black culture, morally corrupt. As far as the other minorities not feeling comfortable in white led churches, I’ve yet to read one of them state that they’ve been taught falsley or haven’t been fed spiritually. Their only whine is that “not to many people look like me. My solution to them is to trust in grace not race and to be upset more about sin and less about skin. As far as “Lionel” goes, he’s the one who needs to take off the hood. If we are in Christ then we r reconciled to other believers.

]]> By: JD Gent http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-5921 JD Gent Fri, 01 May 2009 01:53:58 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-5921 Most black churches are more concerned about race than grace, about skin than sin. If one studies world history one finds that all ethnic groups were both slaves and enslavers, including blacks. Blacks didn't go through any more hardships (and probably less than) other groups.The only difference being that blacks tend to dwell more on past misiries. As far as black reformed churches go, they still seem to push the ethnic more than the Biblical ethic. As a christian Jew who attends a reformed church all I can say is that the world is divided into two camps: the redeemed and the unsaved. Most black churches are more concerned about race than grace, about skin than sin. If one studies world history one finds that all ethnic groups were both slaves and enslavers, including blacks. Blacks didn’t go through any more hardships (and probably less than) other groups.The only difference being that blacks tend to dwell more on past misiries. As far as black reformed churches go, they still seem to push the ethnic more than the Biblical ethic. As a christian Jew who attends a reformed church all I can say is that the world is divided into two camps: the redeemed and the unsaved.

]]> By: Jared http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-5900 Jared Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:44:55 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-5900 Job, I just wanted to say that I thought that your post was hilarious. I am white, but I grew up in a Pentecostal church where we did a lot of black gospel songs. Now that I am reformed, it's hard for me to find good black gospel music that is reformed. It seems like there is an incredible amount of hip-hop that is reformed which I really like, but I would also like to hear something like Fred Hammond or Israel Houghton from someone who is reformed. The closest thing that I've found is J. R. I like his stuff but I wish there were more artists like him and also more Fred, Israel, or Smokie Norful. You know, something like that. Job, I just wanted to say that I thought that your post was hilarious. I am white, but I grew up in a Pentecostal church where we did a lot of black gospel songs. Now that I am reformed, it’s hard for me to find good black gospel music that is reformed. It seems like there is an incredible amount of hip-hop that is reformed which I really like, but I would also like to hear something like Fred Hammond or Israel Houghton from someone who is reformed. The closest thing that I’ve found is J. R. I like his stuff but I wish there were more artists like him and also more Fred, Israel, or Smokie Norful. You know, something like that.

]]> By: Steve http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-4966 Steve Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:20:38 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-4966 Lionel, I read you article and am in total agreement with it. Though I am not black, I am Italian/Irish from Brooklyn. I have been in a mixed church for nearly 20 years, mostly black though the pastor was white. I am a new convert to Reformed Theology and love the rich teaching and Biblical depths that I have been experiencing. I recently left my church and now go to a somewhat small Reformed Church which is mostly white with a few Spanish. I do not feel comfortable in a predominately ANY race church so it is not easy for us. I am currently pursuing my MDiv in NYC and my hearts desire is to one day start a church in an urban area that holds to the doctrines of grace and reaches out to Blacks, Hispanic, Asian, and whites and everything in between. Outside of an urban setting it is very rare to find a racially mixed church and I feel the reason that churches in general are homogenous is by design. Many of these churches say they want to reach out to the black or Hispanic community but do not alter their services to do just that. I mean come on lets be real How many black people would go to a church where the worship leader wears overalls and plays the banjo? Heck, I'm white and I wouldn't go to that church unless of course my name was Bubba from the boondocks. (I do not have anything against Bubbas from the boondocks or banjos, but just trying to make a point). I attended an AG church in Orlando and the church was very mixed in its racial makeup. Black, white, Hispanic, Asian, but the staff was ALL WHITE. I said to my wife who is Puerto Rican and Jewish, "you mean to tell me there is not one black or Spanish brother in this church who has the hand of God on him to be a leader here?" I hate to say it but even though we are washed in the blood, many people still have an underlying prejudice against other races. Though I am now Reformed in doctrine, I do not want to be Reformed in Worship. What I mean is I do not want to sing dry lifeless songs to God and clap off beat :) and show now emotion because I am to refined for that. One thing I have against the Reformed camp is that largely they can become very stiff and dry in worship to God. On the Pentecostal side you tend have the wild and crazy and on the Reformed side you tend to have the walking dead. JESUS IS ALIVE! And if I cannot show emotion in my worship for that then I am dead. That is what I loved about the Black Church. I learned to be real about how I felt about Jesus. I learned to lift my voice and cry out to God. But unfortunately may Charismatic churches throw out sound doctrine in order to have some kind of spiritual extra biblical experience. Yet on the Reformed side due to the craziness they tend to do the opposite, throw out the experience for the sake of sound doctrine. Sound Doctrine is PARAMOUNT, but that does not mean we have to have funeral services instead of Worship Services. I pray that some of the white Reformed Leaders would begin to preach racial unity and change some of their traditions (NOT DOCTRINE) to start attracting more blacks into their churches. If God wills it one day I would do just that. My heart goes out to all my brothers in Christ who find themselves in this dilemma. It just does not seem right. If Reformed Theology is TRUE DOCTRINE, which I believe is the case, then it should attract all peoples of all nations and we should conduct our services accordingly. If Pastor Billy Bob does not want to change and Bubba keeps plukin his banjo then nothing will change. But I believe that God will change this because the blood of Jesus washes away all color lines, you are my brother period. We are just Brothers of Other Mothers and have the same father, God Almighty! God Bless you my friend and I pray that a racial revival will consume the Reformed Church. Lionel,

I read you article and am in total agreement with it. Though I am not black, I am Italian/Irish from Brooklyn. I have been in a mixed church for nearly 20 years, mostly black though the pastor was white. I am a new convert to Reformed Theology and love the rich teaching and Biblical depths that I have been experiencing. I recently left my church and now go to a somewhat small Reformed Church which is mostly white with a few Spanish. I do not feel comfortable in a predominately ANY race church so it is not easy for us. I am currently pursuing my MDiv in NYC and my hearts desire is to one day start a church in an urban area that holds to the doctrines of grace and reaches out to Blacks, Hispanic, Asian, and whites and everything in between. Outside of an urban setting it is very rare to find a racially mixed church and I feel the reason that churches in general are homogenous is by design. Many of these churches say they want to reach out to the black or Hispanic community but do not alter their services to do just that. I mean come on lets be real How many black people would go to a church where the worship leader wears overalls and plays the banjo? Heck, I’m white and I wouldn’t go to that church unless of course my name was Bubba from the boondocks. (I do not have anything against Bubbas from the boondocks or banjos, but just trying to make a point).

I attended an AG church in Orlando and the church was very mixed in its racial makeup. Black, white, Hispanic, Asian, but the staff was ALL WHITE. I said to my wife who is Puerto Rican and Jewish, “you mean to tell me there is not one black or Spanish brother in this church who has the hand of God on him to be a leader here?” I hate to say it but even though we are washed in the blood, many people still have an underlying prejudice against other races.

Though I am now Reformed in doctrine, I do not want to be Reformed in Worship. What I mean is I do not want to sing dry lifeless songs to God and clap off beat :) and show now emotion because I am to refined for that. One thing I have against the Reformed camp is that largely they can become very stiff and dry in worship to God. On the Pentecostal side you tend have the wild and crazy and on the Reformed side you tend to have the walking dead.

JESUS IS ALIVE! And if I cannot show emotion in my worship for that then I am dead. That is what I loved about the Black Church. I learned to be real about how I felt about Jesus. I learned to lift my voice and cry out to God. But unfortunately may Charismatic churches throw out sound doctrine in order to have some kind of spiritual extra biblical experience. Yet on the Reformed side due to the craziness they tend to do the opposite, throw out the experience for the sake of sound doctrine. Sound Doctrine is PARAMOUNT, but that does not mean we have to have funeral services instead of Worship Services.

I pray that some of the white Reformed Leaders would begin to preach racial unity and change some of their traditions (NOT DOCTRINE) to start attracting more blacks into their churches. If God wills it one day I would do just that.

My heart goes out to all my brothers in Christ who find themselves in this dilemma. It just does not seem right. If Reformed Theology is TRUE DOCTRINE, which I believe is the case, then it should attract all peoples of all nations and we should conduct our services accordingly. If Pastor Billy Bob does not want to change and Bubba keeps plukin his banjo then nothing will change. But I believe that God will change this because the blood of Jesus washes away all color lines, you are my brother period. We are just Brothers of Other Mothers and have the same father, God Almighty!

God Bless you my friend and I pray that a racial revival will consume the Reformed Church.

]]> By: gentleexit http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-4915 gentleexit Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:08:19 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.com/2007/11/27/the-black-and-reformed-christian%e2%80%99s-dilemma/#comment-4915 No "enemies" ever called Athanasius "the black dwarf". The label only became his in 1984. I've chronicled the mistake here: http://www.conorpdowling.com/803/chasing-the-black-dwarf No “enemies” ever called Athanasius “the black dwarf”. The label only became his in 1984. I’ve chronicled the mistake here: http://www.conorpdowling.com/803/chasing-the-black-dwarf

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